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I had visited a small Audio shop in which I will leave nameless for now. In the past, I have been there about half a dozen times without a single purchase. Upon my recent last visit I was rudly thrown out. Here's how it goes. I asked the salesman if I could demo a certain speaker they carry. The store owner steps in and says " I don't have the speaker, and if I did I wouldn't play them for you". I replyed why not? Owner says "We give you demos,buy nothing,and then you buy on line". He doesn't know me on a opersonal level. So, how can he assume that statement. That being true or false is not the issue here. That derogatory accusation towards me is a personal negetive judgement of my character. I understand it's a business that the only goal is to produce capitol. I also know that maybe the "on line" audio market is killing his businss, but don't take it out on me. I do not deserve to be treated in an unprofessional manner. Yes, I'm taking it personal and I'm prepared to go futher with this. I will not stand for discrimination.
Follow Ups:
Looks like you have been found guilty of trying to find the best price on multi-thousand dollar purchases! Shame on you. You should just march in there with your money in hand ready to hand it over the instant you hear anything that sounds even remotely good. Do you understand me? That dealer is your local good friendly dealer you are beholden to him. You must be faithful to him because its a sacred covenant of the highest religious proportions. Bullshit! Does that local dealer give a flying &^&% about you and your needs?Sounds like he should have offered you a deal and now he realizes he lost a sale. He has only himself to blame. But I do think that most dealers and audiophiles are simply just too stupid to operate in a rational manner. I'm trying to think of the last time I was kicked out of a business for looking(Never).
This type of action is helping to ruin my hobby.I used to have several record stores and audio stores to shop at, but since people like MatisseFish came around, I now have Best Buy and Circuit City. Yanni instead of Furtwangler.
I don't agree with "throwing him out" but I darn sure would not have spent any more time helping him.
Did you actually read all of FishMatisse214's posts? At one point he said this store sells only "garbage". Given that opinion, and his admission that he had been there at least 6 times before, what possible purpose could the seventh visit have served?
Before I or anyone else for that matter can fully understand the situation-Have you ever auditioned at the unnamed store and then purchased the same or similar items online ?
If -yes- then the owner was justified. Maybe he could have been more diplomatic in making his point, but his point is still valid.
If the answer to the above is -yes-, then how did the owner find out ?
If the answer is -no- then what led the owner to make the assumption ?
Looking forward to your reply.
Best,
He's been asked this question a number of times throughout the thread. The best he could come up with was that whether he did or he didn't wasn't the point. Kinda tells ya the answer, now don't it?
The Gold Standard for dealers. There will never be a better. Once you reminded him the reason for your visit (appointment only). He asked what you wanted to hear (even remebering what you listened to on previous visit/s). Cued up the platter. Then sat SILENTLY until it's conclusion.Never a word, or an interruption. I auditioned Apogees and ML's there. But never purchased (anywhere, ever). At various times, I did buy a pre, after short audition. And a tonearm with no audition. Making an appointment limited Randy's exposure. But once made. He made ZERO effort to sell. Either you wanted to buy it, or you didn't.
Elmo,I agree completely with your comments on Randy- a magic dealer. Most all my current main system came from him- ARC SP10, D115, Vandersteen 2s, Oracle III/SMEV- 1987 on.
Whenever I have any kind of question, he seems to have unlimited time and even recognizes my voice when we haven't spoken in a year. As you say, he has opinions and steers towards certain things he likes, but there is absolutely no pressure. He is not the last word technically, but rather concentrates on the sound than the reasaon. He regularly sends me holiday cards and notices of events.
When shopping for my SP8 replacement, three of us from my office went to Optimal and Randy did a single blind demonstration of the ARC SP8, SP9, SP10, and SP11. All three of us bought SP10s and all of us bought additional gear after.
Highest recommendation!
Cheers,
Have you done those things?
Did you use his shop for auditions then jump on Audiogon and buy there?Come on, come clean. That little fact will go a long way (for me) to determine if:
a) the shop owner is a douche bag....
or
b)you are a spectacular hypocrite and the owner is calling you on it.
The audiophile world is not too big.
Maybe someone YOU know knows them, and THAT person casually mentioned to the owner, your habit of looking at that store, then buying elsewhere.
If it IS true that the demo there, and buy elsewhere, then you have zero complaints.
Though I have gone into one local store a dozen times and bought nothing... but in the past I did buy a Counterpoint preamp from them. Since then, that store has really just gotten weirder and weirder... (As have most audio stores... maybe it is just me??)
Audio stores HAVE gotten weirder, and maybe BECAUSE of online purchasers.I had a highly regarded store owner accuse me of basically the same with a unit he was selling online, calling me a time waster, etc. Unfortunately for him, he did not know who I was from my email and AudiogoN ID and I "was" a good customer of his, having purchased a Naim CDS and a pair of Gradient Revolutions from him in the past (as well as directing a friend to his store who purchased an entire $10k plus system).
I do not think any attitude like what I received or Mr Fishwhatever received is necessary or helpful to highend audio. There will ALWAYS be timewasters and people who "shoparound" in ANY retail business, BUT a polite and courteous dealer has a much better chance of turning an online shopper into a customer than a rude one.
On a side note, before the Internet, did you ever try and trade used gear at a highend shop for new gear??? The amount of $$$ they offered for your used equipment was a crime ... maybe the Internet is just a way for the consumere to bite back on occassion.
Regards,
You know, the business owner made this claim and some here got into the local vs internet bash of buyers. As much as I try to support businesses where I live, local economy etc, I also believe that ANY business with a website is trolling for sales outside the local business area and becomes an internet competitor. Therefore, it's fair game while shopping around to include to online retailers. It's absolutely hypocritcal for any business to cry about people looking for better deals, especially if it's a significant cost difference, if they maintain a website where people can purchase their products. Service after the sale is a lost art, and really, local service is only for convienience. If the online dealer provides a valid warranty, the manfacturer will still take care of most problems. This is why Galen Carol, Music Direct, ONECALL, Underwood, Audio Elation and others will flourish. They truly understand who their competitors are and set the highest standards for "Customer Service".
Stop whining-you werent discriminated against and you need to take responsibility for being a Jack Off. People who waste others time and resources and then expect the red carpet are selfish and clueless. It may have been rude and unprofessional to give you the boot but sometimes enough is enough. I bet the employees of that store appreciate the stance taken by the owner as well.
Instead of trying to understand what you, the prospective customer wanted, he put himself and his needs first.I mean, isn't the hardest thing, getting someone into the store? How many folks are into audio these days?
The internet is a fact of life. It is interesting to see how some top dealers like Galen Carol, John Rutan and Kevin Deal have taken advantage of it.
I run a business , I might do exactly the same. My and my staffs time is money. If a customer asked for 6 quotes or for me to make 6 samples or asked for 6 designs or just came in 6 times and talked at length or spent my salespeoples time and NEVER purchased an item , I too would ask them to go elsewhere or give them short shrift.
You cannot possibly think that they will give you 6 "chances" and then a 7th on the hope you might buy when you have NEVER demonstrated your intent to do so. Understand that ANY profit made on an item is offset by the cost of selling that item , and time is a MAJOR component in that. There is a limit to customer service , and IMHO you exceeded that and wore out your welcome.I don't think you have a right to get up on your high horse in this case , the owner balanced out the cost/benefit of you as a customer and found you wanting. The consumer is NOT always king and right , despite them thinking so.
I might not have been as rude , perhaps made some other excuse but would have been VERY loathe to spend time with you on your 7th visit.
....... …. I have no idea who is right or wrong in the scenario you described.
I believe all businesses should show respect and courtesy towards all customers. However, I do support the right of any business owner to ask anyone to leave their shop for whatever reason.
If you feel aggrieved the best thing you can do is to shop elsewhere.There are lots of views in this thread covering a wide range of topics relating to customers and retailers. I would like to make the following points;
I often go into shops without buying anything – I have never been asked to leave.
I nearly always tell the salesman I will be “shopping around” and buying the item for the lowest price. (I don’t do that with hi-end audio but I do “haggle”)
I nearly always deal with the manager or owner of the store.
I am always willing to give a shop or salesman a “second chance” – we all have the odd “bad –day” don’t we?In the small town near where I live I think that customer service has improved dramatically over the last 15 years. As mentioned by Aussie John in the thread, Australia Post staff is friendly and efficient. In this area, all government businesses have improved their “face to face” customer service 10 fold over the last 5 years.
Lastly, I think there is “two” sides to customer service. Firstly, and mainly, staff need to be friendly and courteous towards all customers. Secondly, a point often forgotten, customers also need to be friendly and courteous towards sales people – even if the salesman doesn’t deserve it. I know I never lower my standards just so I can trade insults with a shop salesman.
I have found the views of inmates in this thread to be quite educational for a little Aussie country boy.
Smile
Sox
nt
.......…… no reason to condone rude and unprofessional behaviour from a retailer.I posted earlier I though there was “more to this than meets the eye”. I, like everyone else here, isn’t privy to ALL the facts about the scenario the original poster describes.
What I do know, it is not good business practise to “throw” customers out of the shop. I have no idea how so many in this thread can make assumptions and indeed conclusions from the information given.
The assumption or conclusion on weather “fishmatisse214@aol.com” is a “time-waster”,”tire-kicker” or whatever is rather a moot point. I have no idea if this guy buys audio gear online or elsewhere, it dosent really matter.
What is clear, having been thrown out of the shop, he will never ever spend money in that shop.A lot in this thread seem to not want to accept that untill the guy was thrown out he was indeed a potential customer.
The store owner needs to concentrate on what HE does to promote his buisness and not what the buying practises of this guy may or may not be. I’m not sure why the store owner was so ready to accept failure?
If the store owner, and many in this thread, are so positive this guy is buying audio equipment elsewhere, why on earth would you chase him away? A qualified buyer is indeed a valuble asset. The approach I would have taken would be to have a friendly chat with the guy and see what I needed to do to gain his custom. It is far better to sell the guy audio gear at a small margin to cost than to never have his custom at all. “Potential” is a big word in buisness – remember; “once you’ve got him you will have him for life”.The first plasma screen I bought I was “shopping around” for the best deal. One “dumb” salesman said there was no way he could match the price I had been quoted elsewhere. He said to me “If I sell it to you at that price it is only a margin of 9%” my reply to him was “surely 9% of $7000 is much better than 30% of sweet F A?? “ The moral of my story here is :”something is sure as hell better than nothing”.
In closing, I have read all the posts and maybe this guy could be a real pain BUT I am not sure. What I am sure of is that If I had concluded that he was indeed buying audio gear then I would consider myself a failure if I couldn’t sell him something.
Smile
There are costs to selling any item , and the net profit (what you actually "take home") is the diff tween what the supplier pays and how much he sells for minus those costs. In small store salarys , rental etc are HUGE components of that , its not that the guy is stacking high and selling volume cheap where the cost per individual sale is not that material as a percent of it's selling price.
If you are naive enough to think that a gross margin of 9% is better than nothing , you need a course in business. If the minimum margim between making a profit and just changing money is 15 or 20% or whatever , selling at a 9% margin is losing money and it IS NOT better than nothing at all if someone else in the future is prepared to pay a price where the dealer actually MAKES something (and he would hardly be a cretin and buy unsealeable stuff) Theres a good saying that puts this in a nutshell , ""Turnover is vanity , profit is sanity".
In the original posters case , Time is money , there is only so much you can invest in a customer before it gets to a level where the cost of any sale eats up any profit , its at that point you have to "fire" the customer.
Rodney Gold
............I found your post to be arrogant and condescending. Your gratuitous remarks; “If you are naive” & “you need a course in business” I thought were unwarranted and only highlight your ignorance to good retailing practices and good customer service.
I am certainly not going to preach to you on how I run a VERY successful business with top quality products and that I actually pay my employees! I will leave those conceited self-appraising comments to others.
Rodney, you correctly point out that “net” profit is the difference between “gross” profit less costs. This simple equation is all that is necessary for this discussion.
You hypothesize that “the minimum margin between making a profit and just changing money is 15 or 20% or whatever”. Disregarding the “whatever”, I think for the purpose of this thread it is reasonable to accept that the “break-even” margin maybe 15%-20% above cost.
However, this margin is the figure used to draw up a business plan or set and review pricing policy. The relevance of this margin is the “AVERAGE” of all goods sold in any given reported period of trading. It is NOT a figure that dictates that ALL goods must be sold ABOVE that base margin to make a profit. This is a universally accepted business principle. Your failure to be able to grasp the fundamental difference between over-all average margins and individual margins on any particular good only highlights your ignorance on the subject.
Your claim that the shop selling me a $7000 plasma screen on a margin of 9% is loosing money is fundamentally flawed in logic and in fact.
The costs of operating the business is the same regardless if I walk in the store or not. For a shop to turn down a sure sale of 9% is poor business judgment.
The shop that DID sell me the plasma did so willingly. It just so happens to be the most successful electrical retailer in the area. I have purchased tens of thousands of goods from them over the last five years. I may very well have received an exceptional “deal” on the plasma screen but I would hazard a guess that the AVERAGE margin that shop has made from my purchases over the years is well above 9%. I would hazard a guess that the dummy that turned down the 9% margin on the $7000 is ruing his decision.
In closing, I don’t believe it is good business practice to “throw” guys out of your shop because he isn’t buying goods from you. If I thought someone was buying the same goods I have but he was buying them elsewhere for cheaper I would sure as hell do everything I could to gain the guys custom. I don’t accept defeat easily and I am a little surprised at how easy a lot in this thread would “throw in the towel” and accept failure by throwing the guy out of the shop and forever lose his custom.
SmileSox
"We lose money on every one we sell, but we make it up in volume."
In the travel business, the majority of transactions are losing transactions but that is part of the business. Airlines used to give 15% commissions on sales, then they were reduced to 12%, then 8%, then 5% and now, travel agent airline commissions are mostly a thing of the past. Our most common transaction is from BWI to San Juan which is often a $99 Super Saver. We also sell many $69 flights. It costs us well over $20 per ticket in labor, bookings, computer and phone charges, FedEx or courier, and so forth. Many times, we sell hundreds of tickets for, say, $129, (which is a losing proposition to beging with) and the fare is lowered between the time of ticketing and departure. We've spent weekends sending checks to customers on tickets in which we were already losing money.
the biggest improvements I've seen here in Upstate NY are the postal service and Motor Vehicle - go figure!!
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
I realize that most of the replies were against me. The offended are probably dealers, salesman, or in the audio business. I have not reveiled the store's name nor did I flame anyone. However, I now know that there is a sub inmate culture who do not obey the no flame rules. I was called Asshole, Idiot, Jerk, and stupid. I was only trying to have fun here and now I know that I am an Asshole, Idiot, Jerk, and most of all stupid for posting here. But thanks to all who understand.
Check the letter after the posters name , most if not all barring one have an A
The letters R or D will indicate a rep, saleman or a dealer.
Your post came across as an unjustified whine and the fact that most posts did not side with you surely illustrates that? Now you are accusing all those that didnt sympathize with you as being rule breakers , having a vested interest or being dealer sockpuppets.
Some of us are merely realistic.
Rodney Gold
yer right about the "subculture". There are, always, two sides tho. If they didn;t know you - it was inexcusable - if you have a habit of doing this, perhaps not so inexcusable. Still - good customer service is an art and it takes the wheat with the chaff. Ya never know what being nice will net you.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
I don't think it is unreasonable to make a number of visits to a dealer before making a purchase potentially of thousands of dollars. I like to listen to a component at LEAST four or five times before making a purchase because even the system I own doesn't sound the same to me all of the time, I know thats opening another can of worms. Since you stated you do buy from dealers sometimes and don't use them for auditioning purposes and shop for price online you are a potential customer and should be treated with respect. He should assume that you are a potential customer. Some dealers wwant a quick sale with minimal auditioning but if the customer makes a mistake he or she is the loser. Over what what period of time did you make your six visits? If you audition components every six months I think he is making a big mistake writing you off because there are so many products on the market it is not unlikely that a sale couldn't be made in the future. I wouldn't worry about this rude person and just forget about him and shop elsewhere.
Our family owns a chain of travel agencies and we see it all the time. People come in to daydream about a vacation they never plan on taking, asking tons of questions, and taking handfuls of brochures (which are costly, and we usually have to pay for). Also, you get about twenty calls a day - and you know its people just going down the yellow pages - trying to find the best price on a flight, cruise, or package. People assume that this is information we can just look up, but it isn't - it's a bit more complicated than that. Sometimes they call you right back forgetting that they just called you.But, we treat each one as a prospective customer whether that is likely or not. It's just a part of doing businesses, and the successful ones would never treat a prospective customer as an annoyance.
How many these people do these things half a dozen times without buying something from you?
"How many these people do these things half a dozen times without buying something from you?"We have a good number of regular window-shoppers. We actually know most of them by name. Frankly, I hope the other agencies that they visit do get tired of them and treat them as the original poster was treated. If and when they do make a booking, I know where they will come!
However communications are a complex area and, much as I hate them, I have to concede the computer phone voice directing you to press multiple buttons is a necessity for many businesses.But when it comes down to person to person contact, there is no excuse for incivility.
However I'm saddened to hear that service in the US is declining because that was one area where I felt the US was far in advance of Australia. It certainly was a few years ago when I visited.
Here, it is far too often I am ignored while the "assistant" is filling out forms or worse, having a personal conversation with someone on the phone or with a friend at the counter. A few acknowlege your presence with a polite "I'll be with you in a moment" but it is easy to get the impression you are a nuisance and are keeping them away from more important matters.
However it is easy to see when a business takes customer service seriously and have put their employees through a training course. I'm always impressed with the service here at the counters of Australia Post - friendly, efficient and always helpful. And I should add that our local (relatively) high end store, relying on home theatre to survive, are not too bad although their recorded phone message advising to leave a message & they will call you back, is a sham as they never do :-(
It's not that hard for businesspeople to spot "customers" who are using them to drive down the price at another establishment, or take advantage of a free demo in order to buy online, or the like. I'm actually surprised they gave you the benefit of the doubt for as long as they did." So, how can he assume that statement. That being true or false is not the issue here."
Oh, but it is. They figured out that you've been using them, and you're angry with them because you were found out.
Once they figured out that there was a snowball's chance in hell that you would ever become a customer, there was no longer any obligation or need on their part to treat you as if you are a customer. Showing you the door was the appropriate thing to do.
every (non) customer you piss off is going to talk to a hundred more before he's through. How much actual effort does it take to be pleasant? Not much I can well attest.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Just as most business people can spot a time-waster/tire-kicker, most people can see when someone is ragging on a business because they have an axe to grind. Complaints with merit can devastate a business. Whining and sour grapes don't impress.A perfect example - Fish person tells a thousand audiophiles of his bad experience. It's pretty obvious he has an axe to grind. Most of the people who read his tale of woe are not impressed.
If you mean "are people gonna boycott the store?", you're correct there will not be a significant negative effect. However, as people continue to enter the store in the back of their minds will be the nagging rememberence of a bad experience someone else had. This will lead to a lack of patience with busy salespeople (justified or not) and thinking of "that guy was right, these people don't have time for me either". Ultimately, poor customer relatiions has a long term negative effect.
Since we don't even know the name of the establishment that allegedly offended the Fish, it's rather difficult to consider his viewpoint as anything other than apocryphal...a "fish story," as it were ;-)
This behavior is certainly not an isolated incident. There are far more businesses than I imagine that operate this way. We don't need to know the specific name of the business. If this is SOP, it will catch up with them and others of the like.
I haven't quite reached the level of paranoia necessary to see things on that large of a scale yet. ;-)
Yea...life can be tough outside the Shire.
Visiting a shop SIX times and not a single purchase ???? .....GET REAL ... have some consideration for guys trying to make a living. You do come off as a time waster in this situation.
What is really new? It has been common practice for yonks to "shop around" to get the best price, find the most suitable gear etc, so in that context the internet is just another competitor.But I can see the other side of the picture. You were observed to be a non buying "tyre kicker" and the store owner felt peeved to be paying staff to attend to a non revenue and time consuming customer.
However that is no excuse for his bad manners and his lack of sense of customer relations.Overall it is a rather sad scene for audio with home theatre taking over from it in most stores. Ironically this is promoting the internet as a more audio friendly place to shop. Progress? Not from some points of view, but it is an example of evolution in action. Only the fittest, who give genuine friendly service, will survive.
and it's not just audio gear, but almost any product or service. Look at all the posts regarding this topic from people who have never had real customer service. You go in almost any store and some rude punk ignores you or treats you like you're a pest. On the phone you're lucky if you're not on hold for 20 minutes, then they treat you like crap. People growing up in this era think that is normal service. Sad.Paul
I don't agree that this is simply a question of poor customer relations. It's not difficult to read between the lines and conclude that there was far more that had gone on in this whole situation before the store owner finally got fed up and tossed this guy out. I've wasted enough time in various high end shops all over the USA to have seen guys like the original poster and to see them for what they are: Assholes looking to take advantage of a dealer's good nature. Remember that this was at least the seventh time he had been to the store without spending a dime and I'd bet he was quite demanding on each visit. Furthermore it's pretty clear that he NEVER intended to buy-especially since he described their stock as garbage!I've known several dealers over the years who put up with far more of this crap than I ever would.
you would NEVER succeed in business
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
You might want to be a bit more cautious with comments like this. I recently retired after more than forty years as a highly successful marketing executive. And I never put up with "customers" who clearly were just wasting my time.
the "retail" business. Many successful businesspeople are miserable failures when it comes to dealing with the public. And, how do you define "clearly"?Perhaps (perhaps not) you have seen my Mike Tyson story. At a local high end auto dealership there were several young black men "clearly" rummaging through Mercedes and Jaguars. When the Sales Manager saw them - he told the salesman to "get rid of them". The salesman pointed out a young fellow over in the corner just standing there, observing, with his arms folded. When all was said and done, Tyson had purchased about $150,000-200,000 worth of cars, with cash, for his young buddies.
I can tell you that for many years I provided quotes to customers by the dozens that I knew wouldn't result in sales. I knew, and they knew, that I couldn't compete in certain areas. But, by doing so, the referral business I received was very, very substantial.
Sorry if I offended. Didn't mean to. Just get so frustrated when some people lose sight of the forest for the trees.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
"You can't win a pissing contest with a snake". anonI haven't changed any minds either - so I guess we're all stubborn. My concern tho, is that, as fragile as the state of affairs is for brick & mortar establishments - anything one can do to avoid making it worse is IMV, the intelligent thing to do.
That's all -
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Well, I wholeheartedly agree with you on that. It's a scary business to be in these days.
Having read all (I think) of your posts, it's obvious that neither I nor anyone else will dissuade you from your absolutist position, but it's also obvious that you are ignoring the cumulative effects of FishMatisse214's various entries. He's one of those who will take advantage of a retailer's good nature and isn't smart enough to know when to quit. His stated intention to take action because of "discrimination" ought to be enough to tell you that he has problems that no amount of "the customer is always right" forebearance will satisfy. I'd also venture a guess-and it is admittedly a guess, but a fairly well informed one, I think, based on what he's posted-that anybody who knows him isn't likely to pay much attention to his condemnation of this dealer, so the latter probably doesn't have to worry much about lost referrals. And if other people do pay attention to FishMatisse214, they're no doubt just like him!By the way "clearly" means my comment is a judgment informed by a lot of experience. And I don't think there is a difference between retail marketing and any other kind.
Oh, and please remember that, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."-Ralph Waldo Emerson
and the dude is a jerk. I bet that dealer won't be around long though, that's pretty harsh to treat a customer like that without some criminal activity involved.
You might want to consider, so far we have only heard one side of this story.
That's part of the scam. You can't get your hands on most things. This benefits ALL hifi manufacturers. You're repeatedly buying new stuff because you can't make an informed decision. Little questions like "what does this thing actually sound like in my listening room with my other gear and with my personal listening tastes" go unanswered. If auditioning was made easy you'd easily find what you're looking for and be satisfied for a long time. Hifi companies would go out of business. They know we're addicted and stupid enough to but things without auditons if there are enough good reviews, buzz/comments.
Some of us have a good idea of what works in our systems or what doesn't after just one or two auditions. Some stores allow in-home auditions.Those who are too "addicted and stupid" are those with audiophilia nervosa; they obsess over compartmentalized aspects of the sound of audio equipment while they lose sight of enjoying music. The cynical within the high-end audio industry feed off guys like them by encouraging them to go through a never-ending equipment purchasing path.
These days, cynicism in high-end audio is a two way street. Maybe the dealer who kicked out the guy who started this thread is cynical, but if I was the dealer, guys like him would make me cynical pretty quickly.
They should have atleast treated you with some respect and made a better approach. Like ask you if you were ever going to decide to purchase something.I have been to places similar and made my nature of the visit upfront like once I asked that I needed an audition in order to do an eval for a friend.
I imagine the guy was having a bad day and he did not want t o deal with you. To bad,go someplace else. The bad thing is that he should have been more professional about it and he never will knpow how many others you might have recommended his store to. His loss ,not yours.
My sister is a collector of sports memorabelia(?) and I was treaated rudely at one of those shops. I would never recommend him to my siustter so he loss biz as a result.
There are allot of rude people out there and I have always tried to treat people fairly weather or not they were to buy my product and have meet many professional sales people with the same philos. as mine.
I must say though 7X's going back without purchasing something would be un-nerving to me also. Like what does this guy want again,if I were real busy and had potentional customers I needed to give service to that is,but if not then he should have given his time as a professional.
There might have been beneficial things which he could have gathered from you also. He loss a good referal I hope. You never know what might happen in the future. Circuit City pissed me off recently by wasting my time and lying to me over the phone. I swore I would never deaal with them again.
Lastly people and sales people that treat people that provided you that kind of service do not last long usually or else find themselves fired due to bad dispositions.
I had a similair experience last weekend. I left the store and spent $2000 at his closest competitor. This wasn't to spite him, and if he hadn't been such a jerk I may have settled for one of his products instead of discovering my new favorite speakers. I won't name the jerk, but his closest competitor, a great dealer who I am happy to recommend, is The Analog Room in San Jose CA.
I bought a digital camera for something over $1000 at Best Buy. From day 1, there were problems with it. The fact that I used it in my business made it even worse. So Best Buy took it and kept it for three weeks; gave it back and said there was nothing wrong with it. You can imagine how many times I needed that friggin' camera in three weeks. So, I took it back again. I was dealing with teenagers every time. Finally, I asked for the manager. They pointed him out to me, although you could tell they were not supposed to do that. I think, at that point, they were more afraid of me than him. He saw me coming and got on the phone. I stood there for 15 minutes while he alegedly spoke to someone. I finally tapped him on the shoulder and said 'listen, buddy, I want to talk to you about this camera.' To which, with great indignation, he tells me 'every computer in this store is down.' I replied, 'do you take me for a fool?' I can see that every computer we walk past is up and operating.' Then he ran off and said he'd be right back. He never returned. While I wandered around looking for the weasel, a kid in the camera department said, 'listen, buddy, I'm leaving here to go back to school in a couple of weeks, so I don't give a flying f*ck about this place. So I can tell you that Corporate Best Buy trains managers to do what he just did to you. The best you're going to be able to do is sell a broken camera on ebaY, tell the person who buys it, take a big loss, and then go somewhere else to get another one.' That exactly what I had to do. So when you talk about being insulted and treated like a fool at a little store, a similar thing can happen at Best Buy. I guess their closest competitor is Circuit City. That's where I bought the new camera. So far, so good.
One year ago went to the new BB store for a Sony TV (present for wife). The following day found that the remote control was defective (jammed button). No joy from BB staff: "Because you didn't buy an extended warranty from us you have to deal directly with the manufacturer." Extended warranty for trouble the very next day?!? "Store policy." Finally got a replacement remote sent by Sony after a couple hours in Sony's voicemail maze.Circuit City is across the road. We'll never buy from the BB again.
Best,
~"That being true or false is not the issue here. That derogatory accusation towards me is a personal negetive judgement of my character"~Was you bustin' his balls? You can tell 'US ;^)'
I'm not a ball buster. But please don't insult me and try to give me a "101" course on audio. I know more about audio than the entire staff there.
saves your fingertips that way
sincerely beanz
they sell garbage and you know more about audio than their entire staff. Care to enlighten us as to why you went there seven times?
Maybe you should have brought lunch.
That's the best response yet! I'm taking it with a grain of salt.
I don't understand how you intend to "go further" with this. It appears the retailer discriminated against someone who, in his/her belief, buys product from his/her competition. It is entirely legal to discriminate on this basis. So you have no legal backing for "going further" on that route.And you won't "go further" with it by publicizing the retailer's name. That would possibly do harm to his/her business's reputation and cost him/her sales and customers. It's probably wise that you choose not to go this route as if any of your facts are misrepresented it could open you to a slander lawsuit.
You're welcome to be angry. But so is the owner of that establishment. If you are indeed demo-ing equipment in his/her store and buying elsewhere then shame on you. That is definately a violation of trust. If you aren't buying elsewhere then this is a simple misunderstanding which I'm sure could be cleared up with a phone call and credit card number when you do want to purchase. That is assuming you want to maintain a relationship with this establishment which it doesn't sound like you want to do.
> Owner says "We give you demos,buy nothing,and then you buy on line"....So, how can he assume that statement. That being true or false is not the issue here.>
is it going to change the customer's behavior? Drawing (advance) conclusions - no matter how many time you've been screwed - is the very worst thing you can do in business
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
whether true or not, that's none of his/hers concern. I'm the customer and the customer is always right. Do you agree? I don't dictate where one should shop. It's called freedom of choice.
the customer is right! Believing otherwise only hurts YOU, not the customer
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Although this "the customer is always right" shibboleth has been bandied about for years it is NOT gospel. Whether you are in business or not everyone should be polite but that does not mean becoming a doormat. There are real costs involved in wasting time on the tiny minority of the public who are so self-centered or oblivious to normal boundaries that they can't or won't behave in a reasonable manner. Is the customer right if they are overtly rude to your staff? If they pester other other customers and make them uncomfortable? If they interrupt your interactions with paying customers? If they continue to engage in activity that could damage the equipment you're selling despite polite cautions?
Obviously we don't know the full story here but based on:
"the nameless store has garbage."
"I know more about audio than the entire staff there."
"I'm the customer and the customer is always right."
Given this attitude and his admission that this was (at least) his seventh trip into the store with no intention of buying anything I'm not at all convinced that the possible benefits of continuing to play games with this guy exceeded the costs of booting him.
I submit that any business that blindly follows "The customer is ALWAYS right" is not going to be in business for long. A business has to establish reasonable limits. The only question here is whether the owner acted unreasonably and that we cannot know.
nt
Quit posting! I was semi-sympathetic until I read your subsequent posts. You sir are an ass.
...except when he's wrong and apparently you were wrong. If you used his shop and his equipment for demos, not once but numerous times, you have an ethical obligation to purchase your equipment there. If you bought it over the internet instead, then you sir, are nothing but a cheap asshole.Do you think the owner is in the business of providing charity to audiophiles? That's what free demos amount to. And if you don't have the ethics or the integrity to purchase your equipment there, you were lucky all he did was throw you out. He should have charged you $100 a vist for using his store and equipment, tieing it up so paying customers couldn't use it, then applying it to your purchase.
have ever run your own business dealing with the public. Whether this guy is an asshole or not is immaterial! Think about it! The businessman is screwing himself (!) not anyone else. That shouldn't be a difficult concept to grasp.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
I run a business dealing with the public , I run a VERY succesful business with 25 staff whom I have to pay.
I provide top quality products , always deliver on time at a very reasonable price. I consider dealing with a customer like the original poster as screwing myself and my business!!! The owner demonstrated his willingness to accomodate the customer 6x , accordingly the customer has to play ball too. A customer like that wastes resources and takes the food out of mouth and my staffs dependant's mouths. At the end of it all , a small business has the ultimate goal of providing an income , to do that one DOES need to be customer aware but there is a limit. I have often told customers who demonstrate that type of behaviour that it is obvious that we cannot satisfy them or accomodate their wishes , and it might be better off with them going to my competitors. (I even give them names and tel nos to contact said competitors) Either my competitor gets lucky and makes a sale immediately , or goes thru the same thing as I while I now have the time to use more productively.
Rodney Gold
a much better way of handling it. And you can do that without being rude which, I thinkm is the crux of the matter
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Thankyou! Your remarks pretty much sum up the situation, and quite accurately.
This gentleman (I use the term loosely you understand) is pissed because somebody had the courage to call his bluff. His response? To accuse the store owner of discrimination; to accuse the store owner of not understanding his business; to accuse the store owner of not understanding that the customer is always right (whatever the hell that means); to accuse the store of having assembled a bunch of garbage to sell and a bunch of idiots to help him sell his garbage. Picture is pretty clear, isn't it?
Some customers are NOT right, they're simply jerks. As to freedom of choice, the owner exercised his similar freedom: He chose to throw you out.
suffer for it. No wonder there are so few good retailers these days.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Sorry but I have to agree with the above posts. I have a feeling you were using the Dealer. Auditioning the equipment in his store only to buy it online just to save a few bucks. If every one was to do this there would be Dealers left. No sales = no money = no business.
the dealer is still his own worst enemy - and I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that he told himeslf that right after he threw the guy out - if he has any sense that is.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
...for the poster to come in six times and audition without purchasing, for the owner to suspect he's purchasing on the internet without a denial - he did the right thing throwing the jerk out of his store.I, too, own a small business (not audio related) and this guy appears to be a parasite. Who needs "business" like that?
brick & mortar outfits and, whenever possible, still do - even if it costs a bit more. BUT - I have made many visits to shops without buying anything prior to my actual purchases. Some even seemed surprised when I finally bought stuff. But they always treated me well - or I wouldn't have gone back.I fully understand that there often comes a time whan you need to "street" someone. I've had to do it on several occasions. But there's a way and there's a WAY.
Manners and civility are rapidly becoming a thing of the past and, I think, that's to everyone's detriment.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
...there are two sides to every story. Fish made a point of not mentioning what business he was allegedly thrown out of. No way for anyone to get the other side of the story, so the fish person's obviously biased and petulant perspective is the only one available.
...and so far we have only heard the side of the poster. I suspect he minimized his own arrogant and obnoxious behavior.Had the store owner grabbed him by the back collar of his shirt and tossed him out on the sidewalk, I would agree that he showed poor manners. As it was, I suspect the owner used a lot of restraint. He would not have asked someone to leave or been rude to someone he thought would be a paying customer. You haven't heard his side of the story.
Don't take it personally, just don't give them any of your money in the future. And tell your friends. Six visits to a store is nothing when you are going to spend possibly thousands or ten of thousands of dollars and where there are many decisions to make. And if you did spend thousands of dollars with them and there was a problem with their equipment it's nice to know that they would not have any patience with you while getting your stuff fixed. Peoples and establishments true colors come out with time. A quality company with decent people is always looking down the road, how much might you have spent there in the next 10 or twenty tears? If they're in it for fast bucks, they won't be around for support when needed.
And how many stores are so busy they don't have time to show their products? I rarely go in an audio store where is more than 1 customer at a time, and then they could politely ask you to wait.
So, you think it's fair to assume that because a store insists on not having its time wasted, that they will also fail to stand behind their equipment when it fails or requires service? You didn't major in logic, now did you...
often than not - get used to it or find something else to do.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Well, maybe logic isn't my strong point. After all, who with a brain and a pocketful of money would actually want to research, audition, swap components to see which works best with others, think and make an informed decision before they buy?
No, that is wasting a salesmans time. Can't have that. Duh!
I'd have thrown you out too. Time wasting internet buying guy.
Are you a jugde? FYI, I totally respect and support the local audio establishments. FYI, I have bought and spent thousands from other local audio stores. It just so happens that the nameless store has garbage. I'm sure you have made a least one internet purchase in your life. If so, you my friend are a hypocrite.
.
Wow! Each time you post, it gets worse. Garbage? So you waste your own time as well as theirs?
Let's see: You wasted their time on at least 6 different occasions; and, I'd venture a guess, the visit that resulted in your ejection would have been the seventh. You don't say how long you stayed each time, but I'd again venture an (educated) guess that the durations were lengthy. You are quite coy about whether or not you did or did not later buy on the Internet-but I'd bet you did. We also know little else about what happened during your earlier visits, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that you had them switching all kinds of gear in and out.I'm curious: Exactly how did the owner malign your character? As I see it, all he did was get rid of a time-wasting nuisance. And just what is the basis for your claim of discrimination and where will you go with it? Litigation? The Civil Rights Commission? What damages did you suffer (except to your ego)?
You're right about one thing: The goal of a business is to generate revenue and, perhaps, if the owner is lucky, a little profit. "Customers" like you aren't going to help him get there.
If I were you, I'd take another look at your own actions in this whole affair and perhaps attempt to put yourself in the position of a guy trying to carve out a living in a very difficult industry.
Their treatment was certainly rude, but frankly, it seems like they have every right to refuse service to someone like you who, in their estimation, takes up too much of their time.Your claim they're treatment was a negative judgment of your character, but they're assessment of you can't really be attacked as flawed. As another poster noted, you've worn out your welcome because you waster their time.
Find a nicer dealer.
Retail stores generally have the right to refuse service to anyone. If you have been there six times for demos and have have never purchased anything, perhaps you have overstayed your welcome.Common sense would suggest that you find another retailer to deal with. That, and toughen up a little.
Now you know to spend your money elsewhere.I was blown off by a audioshop once ,all I wanted to do was spend $5000 on gear, they looked me up and down saw I looked like a biker type so just acted like I wasent there.I waited for service awhile ,asked a few times. I was the only person shopping at the time.I got pissed off so I left but as I walked out the door ,I showed the owner my $5000 plus in cash and told him I would never be back.I then found a dif shop who treated me so good .I became friends with the owner and spent $10000s of dollars over the years.So they did me a favor instead of spending my money at there crappy service, stuck up shop. I found a much better place to part with my cash and made some friends too
If you've seen the movie - this was the best scene in it - I love that scene.
Was that 30 pretty woman all in a row? thats the only 1 I have seen.But seriously I sell a bit of used gear[I also sold motorcycles for a few] Get many tire kickers its just part of selling you still need to be nice even when they anoy .I have had guys purchase after much pestering ,sucks but its part of doing buisness.
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