 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
I was at the DIY speaker event a couple of weeks ago and that included a dinner with some interesting engineers. Like all good audio discussions that include libations, we got around to cables and power cords. STOP! This is not about cables and power cords per-se, but an interesting resulting question.Without getting into the "if they work" question, how many of us could define if a very small change in sound is better or worse?
Do some manutacturers knowingly make products that degrade sound?
The idea is that if a manufacturer knowingly created a power cord that degraded the sound just a wee bit (this being a lot easier than creating one that improved the sound) and sold it for $200, how many people could tell is was a degrade. The psychology says "I hear a difference", "I read testimonials", and "I spend $200", so is must be better.
Again, I am not saying they work or do not, just wondering how many of us could tell. I was part of a cable test last spring and it was surprising how few people could hear a difference. And those who could hear a difference could not come to a better/worse decision. I noticed this last year in a cap test. Many could hear a difference but few could call a winner (in that one I consistantly picked the cheaper cap :( Clearly, time in one's home is a better test.
This may be old hat around here or I may get my wrist slapped for trolling, but this question keeps haunting me.
Kind of like the STP additive question.
P
Follow Ups:
There is always an aspect of personal taste in the decision as to what sounds best to an individual. There is no absolute sound that will sound best to everyone. People listen to different music and no one system does every music style best. People listen in different ways and to different things in the music. Often what complements one aspect of the sound won't complement every aspect. Given the same system and 2 different listeners, both of whom aren't quite happy with it, the odds are that what makes one happier will make the other unhappier. What is an improvement to one may well be a step backwards for the other.I don't think any manufacturer deliberately makes products which 'degrade' sound. They make products which have their own sound, the sound that the manufacturer thinks is best and there is an element of personal taste and choice in that on the manufacturer's part. There's nothing wrong with that. If your views are similar to the manufacturer's, you will probably think their products are good. If your views are very different to the manufacturer's you will probably think their products are bad.
Be grateful for the variety of products that exist. It's large enough to ensure that everyone can find something that appeals to them. If every product was exactly the same there would be no choice and a lot of people would be quite unhappy with the results forced upon them.
David Aiken
I had an exchange with a maker of headphone amps recently in which he admitted changing the opamp in a product just before its release because it sounded "boring." Rather than make a "straight wire with gain," he preferred to replace the Burr Brown opamp with a National Semi one to make the sound more "exciting." His rationale, "because portable sources are boring," and "I'll send you one of each design"... "I bet you'll keep the national semi" unit. He wants to make money, so he catered to what he knew to be the trend among headphone enthusiasts.Immediately, I knew I would prefer the BB chip, but he is probably right about what will sell to that detail-happy crowd. They don't know what they are missing.
You ask a good question, and one that everyone must grapple with.If you find a change to your system is a trade-off, then you can be sure something is wrong... not necessarily with the change you made, but perhaps something else. Then, you must experiment to find out which or what it is. This can take a lot of time, and perhaps several borrowed products. It gets easier the closer your system comes to the ideal, like many panes of clear glass in a row... you can quickly tell which is dirty. But, if they are each a bit filmy and have their own tints, it can be harder to tell when a change is truly for the better.
The key for me is to listen for when details of the sound are starting to "make more sense." For example, many people find Peter Gabriel's Up album to be muddy. In my car's stock audio system, it certainly seems that way. At home, the CD sounded better, and the bass sounds (not really instruments, but processed and reconstructed samples of various sounds) started to make themselves clear. After several improvements to the acoustics and the system, and a switch to SACD, the individual sounds were clearly isolated, and the arrangment made a new kind of musical and sonic sense. I could hear Peter's full intent for the first time.
I had an even easier time of it when I installed a BP-3.5 power conditioner. I gave it time to break in and didn't focus on the sound for a day. At first, it seemed just about the same in terms of overall tonal balance. But, gradually, it became clear that many aspects were much improved. Flatter frequency response, more extended extremes, more focused and realistic images, deeper soundstage, and so on.
The difference was so large that it forced a re-evaluation of the strengths and weaknesses of everything in my system. For example, I found that turning up the feedback on my tube amps was a good thing. (They have triode/ultralinear switches, and a separate feedback switch to use in concert with this.) Previously, I think it was not a good thing, because the front-end was not sounding quite good enough for me to want to hear every detail, good AND bad, it was sending to the amps. Now, it was clearly better in every respect.
One example during this process: I had already found that the SACD of Cantate Domino was sounding great... I could make out the organ's sound and sensed the hall's size, and the choir seemed almost realistic, with well-focused images. But, once I turned up the feedback, I began to hear images of the pipes themselves. The last (?) layer of vagueness disappeared, and the image sounded damn close to live-witih-eyes-closed. The vocalists' images firmed up, and for the first time, the sibilance from their fricatives merged in space with the sound of their heads and bodies. (With the feedback lowered, their was a slight forwardness on sibilance that dismembered their "s" and "f" sounds from that of their heads.) When details lock into a realistic presentation like this, it makes it easy.
I had fun having a friend, Serge, over, with his great ears and musical knowledge. He is a faster judge then I, but he has different perceptions and goals. My goal is more accuracy and detail while remaining solidly musical. He is more concerned with being musical, and often prefers a bit of euphony if it is like what he is familiar with. Or, so it started out... he was not in agreement about flipping this feedback switch. But, after listening for a while, and adding a couple of pillows at key locations, he agreed that it was both subjectively AND objectively better.
I wrote a bit more about listening to this BP-3.5 (below), and can't recommend it enough. I suspect a lot of other people will have their perceptions and preconceptions revolutionized and their musical enjoyment elevated by such a non-intuitive upgrade. One doesn't expect the power line to be as significant an effect. I suppose we have overestimated, even over-idealized, the performance of power supplies inside of components.
General Asylum - I've been testing the BP-3.5, & can confirm what was written on 6moons.... - Jim Stoneburner
6moons audio reviews: BPT BP-3.5 Signature
Head-Fi - First impressions of BP-3.5
Head-Fi - Monster vs. BPT
SoundStage! Equipment Review - Balanced Power Technologies BP-2 Ultra Edition and BP-Jr. Balanced-Power Isolators (1/2002)
BPT sounds as good as Equi=Tech
BP-2 Ultra and BP-2.5 Ultra, Positive Feedback
Balanced Power BP2 review at Positive Feedback
6moons audio reviews: BPT BP-2+
Circles back to what are the goals of your system.I just want my system to playback the software as it sounded in the mastering suite.
So, how good is my ear at determining that? Getting better...
But it is a tangible goal, and there are tools and techniques to approach it, (good headphones, system comparisons, less is more approach...)
The same approach will work with any audio component. Say you have 2 speakers. One is perfectly flat, and the other has either a 2db hump in the midrange, or a 2db depression; you don't know which one it is. Could you tell which one is flat?
HowdySpeaking for myself, I listen to multiple different cables in a session and have my daughter (and whatever friends might be around) listen blind and give their impressions. We almost always agree about the differences and often choose to stay with what we have.
-Ted
'different' with 'better'. Not that it really matters. What matters is does it sound good to my ears; do I enjoy listening to it, is it pleasing? Now don't get me started on the 'more expensive always means better' opinion! ; )
More often than not, the small change is one of frequency response. Whether that is regarded as good or evil depends on the associated equipment, the source material, the room, and the listerer's state.Makes it all very difficult to pick the best.
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
