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In Reply to: it's not your morality posted by njjohn on March 09, 2003 at 19:49:54:
So next time I see some chick getting gang raped or some old lady getting kick by a bunch of thugs I'll realize that it's not my business and carry on my merry way knowing full well that the victim or her family will settle the issue later on with the proper authorities - just think of all the additional problems I would cause if I became involved!I'm glad you aren't my neighbor!
Follow Ups:
well i do hope you would be one of the people that would get involved if you see someone getting hurt.your comparison is a little drastic, wouldn't you say?
but is it really logical to assume that because i believe that the person in this case should stay out of it, that i would not intervene in the events that you mention? there is no logic to that argument. i'm not a complete noninterventionist, sorry. but i believe in being more selective.
but to me your argument suggests, like your position, a little too of aself-righteousof position, in my opinion. ferret out those bad guys, why don't you? i'm glad we have mr. right here, lol.
i wouldn't want you to be my neighbor either. you are likely to be too meddling and trifling for my taste. i don't like intrusive neighbors.
Sure my example is drastic! So a better analogy would be that I see someone breaking into your house or someone is selling you goods that I know are counterfeits. Yes John I would tell you and give you the information you need to protect your interests - and I would do this whether or not I knew you or even if I didn't like you - and I would appreciate others to do the same for me.I can't believe you could publicly revel in your "noninterventionism" as if it somehow justifies your complacency in a fraud.
good argument. but you continue to use examples which support your position. again you have brought another example of a clear violation of another person (a burgulary).what if you bought a car off a particular lot and it had a defect, known by the seller that the seller was not willing to make good for. do you try to reach as many potential customers of this lot as possible?
i think you would just not patronize this lot again, and perhaps out of some anger, you may get a chance to inform a customer or two.
but basically, it's part of life's lessons. that's how i see it.
but who knows, maybe you would start a mailing compaign. you don't see a problem if you did something like that? you don't see the kind of world you are creating? is it not even worse than the world of some misrepresentation or mistakes?
it's true my horse is not as high as yours. but how far do you go in your crusades?
Honestly we have contacted previous owners of cars we were considering buying when we felt the current seller was misrepresenting the facts.I don't disagree with your point about lessons learned or buyer beware - these are lessons we all need to learn. But I wouldn't stand by and watch someone perpatrate a fraud without speaking up. Money is a bitch and people will try to take advantage of us - but knowing that and accepting that as fact doesn't in anyway relieve us of are obligations to try to protect others from criminal activities.
If my neighbor was selling a car that was always broke and very unreliable but had luckily got it into presentable condition and it seemed like it was running I wouldn't think he was trying to defraud someone if he was trying to sell it as a decent car - who could blame him. But if he bought my car and put it on jacks and ran it in reverse for 60,000 miles and then tried to sell it as a low milage car I would feel obligated to somehow intervene. Would I call the authorities? That's a tough question, and others might consider it a character flaw that I wouldn't, but surely if I knew how to contact every potential buyer I would - I would truely struggle with this - especially if I liked my neighbor. I don't think I'm on somekind of high horse.
i think the argument has run its course. sounds like you are coming from a well-intentioned position.but what about a neighbor selling a car that is unreliable but that he was able to get running? even if he is selling it as a decent car. i don't think he should sell it to anyone. he should take the loss himself. it's a bit of a corruption to dump the car on anyone else. plus the next person may not have the same resources to get it repaired.
that's my point really. the level of corruption is so prevalent. it's not 'out-there', it's everywhere. it's in many, many domains.
money can be a bitch, you are right. but the problem goes much further than some little e-bay seller. why single that person out like he's all that different from other corruptions?
> > but what about a neighbor selling a car that is unreliable but
> > that he was able to get running?
I can't bring myself to label anyone who's ever owned and resold a Ford as being criminal. Fact is the cars are always broke and always need to be fixed. Either it needs to go into the shop or it just came out of the shop - and if someone just paid to have it fixed it's the best time to sell it cause sure as heck it's going to need to go back into the shop in a couple of months.
Your mother bought an old car using all her savings, and your neighbour (who used to own it) later says that he was there when she was buying it, but says he didn't mention that the milage was being grossly understated (so she paid $500 too much) to your mother because it was none of his business.You'd understand his attitude?
no, but i do like the options you are giving.if you can reduce anyone's argument to the absurd by all means do so...but i'm still waiting....
let the buyer beware. lol, including mothers with life savings on the line.
if my mother enters a deal, she has to use good sense or she may pay too much. if she sees the car and the mileage is not what was originally stated, then she can act on that and start renegotiation, not complete the deal, argue, sue, not do anything, or whatever.
i'd be more concerned if my mother went to a new or used car dealer and overpaid without realizing there can be a good deal of negotiation. but this kind of stuff happens all the time. people overpay for things.
people pay more than they should sometimes, but the relative value of what they are getting may still be there.
would i be upset with the neighbor?
i would wonder what his reason would be for being there. if he was invited to help my mother make a decision in buying this car, then he should help her and share what he knows, or he would be deceiving her. but if he was not a friend of my mother's and happened to be there, then i would not expect him to say anything unless she asked him something about the car. then he is expected to tell the truth.
but the case we have here is someone who is not invited. someone not there at all. someone out of the blue.
i'm saying that people need to use their own sense. there's enough information there alone. you don't need outside intruders complicating the picture.
but the main issue is not that. the main issue is whether the persson should INITIATE contact to other parties because he has information about something that is being sold. i say that it's none of his business. once the item is out of his hands, it's not his business to delve into. unless there is some type of very serious misrepresentation.
which i don't believe this case is. if i was e-bay i wouldn't bother either with the concern.
"I'm saying that people need to use their own sense. There's enough information there alone. You don't need outside intruders complicating the picture".Taking personal opinion or levels of decency out of the equation, your statement lacks logic.
The information - the car odometer - is false.
In this case the 'outside intruder' (strange description) isn't complicating the picture, he's making the picture clearer and more accurate.
People can only use their own sense if they have accurate information to make decisions.You may claim that those who'd take action are somehow moral crusaders/interfering busy-bodies who look down on your attitude from a high horse, but I'd say they're perfectly grounded and are fully justified; good to see that the original poster displayed a conscience and did the right thing.
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