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Our 2003 Las Vegas CES and T.H.E. Show ReportA version of this report with pictures (sorry for the long download time) is at http://www.audiofederation.com/dealership/newsletter-january-2003/index.htm (a 'clickable link' is at the bottom of this page)
My wife (Neli) and I attended C.E.S. 2003 at the Alexis and T.H.E. Show at the San Remo, both in Las Vegas. We, unfortunately, did not make it to the high-end component of C.E.S. at the main Las Vegas convention center. From what we understand that is where the mainstream companies like Madrigal/Mark Levinson/Revel, B&W, Sumiko (Sonus Faber, SME), Krell etc. show their stuff.
This is a highly opinionated review - this is what *we* heard. So *please* do not be offended if *your* favorite speaker did not sound right to *our* ears. For better or worse, we are stuck with (to) these ears, just as you are yours. This show report emphasises the rooms that exhibited very high-end, the tip-top state-of-the-art. If we had time, we would have loved to visit each and every room and spend the time to play our test CDs and chat with the exhbitors. But because time is so limited compared to the large number of exhibits, we decided to sample the icing (yum!) and leave the cake for another time. This approach is fraught with the peril of missing something significant -- not being exhibitors, we wish that CES lasted long enough for us to hear every room.
We stayed in the MGM Grand hotel - reportedly the largest hotel in the world. The walk from our 21st floor room to the San Remo was 10 minutes, to the Alexis Park 20 minutes. Not too bad. People might wonder what negative impact the sound of all that traffic does to one's listening capability and over what duration (ah, that explains everything, I hear you saying :-), but we did our best. There was also a shuttle between the San Remo and Alexis Park that ran quite frequently (the shuttle even had a TV so the NFL playoff games could be enjoyed enroute). The weather the first day we arrived was a delightful 74 degrees (coming from Boulder this was most excellent :-). But that was just a spoiler as the rest of the show the temperature hovered in the low to mid 60s (during daylight hours, then dipped into the 40s after sunset - and it was dark each day before 6:00pm, when the shows closed for the day). If you haven't been to Las Vegas, be forwarned: people smoke here.
We had driven down, bringing toys from up north (Audio Aero Capitole mk II CD Player, Shunyata Anaconda Vx power cords and a slew of Nordost Valhalla). Driving the equipment over to the San Remo in our mostly unpacked car we discovered the evil-that-are-speed-bumps: there is a special kind of horror associated with hearing your CD player in the trunk of your car land after a 6 inch sub-orbital flight. A word to the wise: watch out for them speed bumps, they are up to no good.
The show at the San Remo was divided up into three areas: floors 8, 9 and 10 in the gold tower which contained about 55 exhibitors, four largish banquet rooms on the first floor (Wisdom Audio, Lamm Industries, Accoustic Dreams, and VAC/Pipedreams/RixRax), and then four large rooms next door in the San Remo conference center (Edge Electronics, Halcro, Halcro again, and Audio Research).
The show at the Alexis Park was the same as always: about 15 2-story buildings (numbered 13 through 28 or so), each building containing a courtyard from which about 40 rooms of about 3 or 4 basic sizes are accessible.
A disclamer: We are dealers for Acapella Audio Arts, Audio Aero, Edge Electronics, Nordost and Shunyata. We do try to be as honest (and some may say ruthless) as always regards our reporting the sound of these lines at the conferences, whether they sounded fantasic or completely sucked, but we must necessarily hold back (some :-) on our exuberence, or perhaps even disappointment, in the name of good taste, when referring to these lines or their direct competitors.
Many rooms continue to tweak and improve their performance each day of the show, sounding their best on the very last day. Certainly if one goes to a room the first day and the sound is excellent, then one's visit was worth one's investment of time (and, oh yes, there is not enough time to visit all of the rooms, never mind the subset of rooms that one really would like to hear, and so time is one's most important resource at a show, that and a good pair of comfortable shoes). We 'tried' to make very quick visits to all of the rooms we really would like to hear (running shoes may be of help here), and then set aside specific time on the last day to re-hear the rooms that had problems that first day. The intervening 2 days can be spent doing business (if any) and just browsing the rooms, looking for the 'surprise hits', those rooms that are unexpected (to us anyway) 'standouts' (because of the large number of rooms, word of mouth is a very important factor in finding those surprise hits and for this we also rely heavily on the daily posts on Audiogon, Audio Asylum and EnjoyTheMusic.com).
Ubiquitous components: Audio Aero Capitole mk II CD Player, Gamut CD-1 CD Player, Shunyata and Elrod Power Systems powercords
Test CDs: Gypsy Passion - New Flamenco (Narada) (track 1), Getz and Gilberto (track 1), Brent Lewis - Earth Tribe Rhythms (track 1), Jerry Douglas, et. al., Skip, Hop and Wobble (track 1).
Day -2, Tuesday, January 7th
Lots of uncrating, setting up room treatments, complaining (justifyably so) about the difficulty of having to optimize one or more sound systems in just 2 days. Many exhibitors use the same room year after year, so that the setup, once optimized, can be reused each year. Others, such as those in the San Remo (this is the first time T.H.E. Show has been held here) have to try not to panic and just do the best they can in the time allotted and with the materials available.
Day -1 Wednesday, January 8th
Most systems are up and running. Optimization phase commences (and continues throughout the duration of the show).
During the shipment of a number of Tenor amplifiers, some scoundrels managed to abscond with a couple of crates that contained one of the two brand new (truly awesome looking) Tenor 300 watt monoblocks and at least one 75wp monoblock. Besides being totally rude this meant that we were not able to hear the 300s this show and would have meant that 2 rooms would have gone Tenor-less had not a couple of audiophiles interrupted their lives, packed up and shipped their personal amplifiers to the show. This was handled so adroitly and seamlessly that had we not been told about the fiasco, we would not have even noticed that a near disaster had been adverted, and we would have thought that the 300s were being shown but not heard. More about the Tenors below, but sometimes one just has to stand in awe at how many great people are involved in this hobby. A special thanks from all of us attendees must be given to Audiogoners mikel and oakrow (thanks guys!).
CES and T.H.E. Show open - Thursday, January 9th
The Edge Electronics/Wisdom Audio Room - San Remo Conference Center.
There were three systems in this room: a big Wisdom Audio M-75 system, a little Wisdom Audio (Rush) system, and a system using custom-built speakers, all of which were driven by Edge amplifiers. The Big Wisdom Audio system was driven by the new Edge Reference 800-watt per channel awesome-looking pyramid shaped monoblocks, Edge Signature 1 preamp, and an Audio Aero Capitole mk II CD player. Nice, big sound, very smooth, but somewhat uninvolving. The smaller Wisdom system was not able to be demoed because of a CD player that did not survive transit to the show. The system with the custom built (by Steven Norber) speakers (using 4 ceramic midranges and a top-of-the-line JM Labs tweeter), was driven by alternately the Edge Signature 1 400-watt/channel monoblocks and the new 800-watt/channel Reference monoblocks, Edge Signature 1 line stage preamp, Gamut CD-1, Aesthetix Io phono stage and the new VPI HRX turntable. This system was really quite nice to listen to, especially when playing a particular Louis Armstrong LP (no I do not know which one). The speakers seemed to generate quite a bit of positive mention from people we talked with. In contrast with the Wisdoms; they have quite a different style - you like either one or the other, but probably not both.
Halcro rooms - San Remo Conference Center
Halcro was there in full force. Large banners, lots of people in suits. There were two Halcro rooms, one with EgglestonWorks speakers (Savoys?) and one with Wilsons (surround sound configuration with Maxx's in front, a Watch center channel, and Sophias(?) in the rear). The surround-sound music was not subtle and was more like 'effects' than music. However a Mahler piece playing in 2-channel showed very nice separation. And, of course, a Kodo drum CD sounded very dynamic - it really highlighted those big Wilsons. We visited the Halcro rooms on the last day, Monday, but unfortunately they were closed - we were curious to hear our own music in the Wilson room and to see what front end components they were using to generate such nice separation on the Mahler disk. Also we heard good things about the EgglestonWorks room as well. We find the Halcro amps to be a little too neutral for their own good (i.e. cold and uninvolving). On the other hand our personal preference is for equipment that (ever so slightly) emphasizes musicality over neutrality, and, the Halcros we have heard have always been paired with speakers that, in our opinions, emphasized neutrality over musicality (Wilson Maxxs, Revel Salons, Rockport Antares). However, hearing the EgglestonWorks speakers, being much more musical, with the Halcro might have disavowed us from our currently held beliefs about the Halcro's (lack of) musicality. But we skipped this room, hoping to get back later. Argh!Audio Research - San Remo Conference Center
Audio Research, Magnepan speakers. Best I heard the Magnepans sound but... , what a strange setup: 4 maggies, 2 side by side directly in front, and then the standard 2 in the front left and front right positions. Soundstaging was weird, a tunnel of instruments, very narrow and very deep.Tri-cell room - Alexis Park
The system included Acapella Violins, Accustic Arts Drive-1, Accustic Arts Amp-1, Accustic Arts pre, and Cardas Golden Reference. Typically awesome Acapella midrange and highs; bass a little loosey goosey. Plenty of power from the amp. We loved the look of the blue horn with white enclosure, especially for rooms with white walls. Imaging a little off. Came back a few days later, bass had tightened up considerably, imaging quite nice. There is a reason we like these speakers so much.We chatted awhile with one of Acapella's two designers, a Mr. Hermann Winters, who was over from Germany accompanied by his wife Inge. Very knowledgeable and passionate about producing the best sound with the best engineering. Honestly, almost all designers we meet are very friendly, passionate, and fastidious engineers (even you Bob Crump ;-) - who love their work and care deeply that their products are the best possible given time, budget and technological limitations - what a great hobby/business this is!
Audio Aero rooms - San Remo Gold Tower
One system included small Wilson Benesch speakers, Audio Aero Capitole 50 watt push-pull amplifier and new Prestige CD/DVD/SACD player. The speakers were not broken in and not of the quality for us to evaluate the sound of the much-awaited $15K Prestige player. The look of the player is more refined than that of the Capitole mk I or mk II, and it looks to have 2 joysticks for front panel operations. The 3 disks on top of the box are symmetrical with the 3 that separate the coupled transport and dac chassis - but look kind of out of place, just sitting there. HRS (Harmonic Resolution Systems) slabs (on top of the players) and isolation platforms were used with the AA equipment.The other system included a Capitole mk II CD player, Capitole 50 watt push-pull amplifier, and a (vertically) stacked pair of Quad ESL 57s. Personally never liking Quads because they have sounded bloated in the past (apparently driven by an under-powered amplifiers?), this system sounded very nice. This is how everyone said the quads sounded - and it was great to finally 'hear' them.
We chatted with Adrian Van Doom, the Audio Aero amplifier and CD player analog designer. A very nice down-to-earth kind of guy who still proudly prefers vinyl, even over his vaunted Capitole mk II CD player. One thing we came away with was that he designed the AA equipment to be connected by balanced cables - and that the improvment over single-ended should be quite significant. We can't wait to try this ourselves. He also thinks that Balsa wood is an excellent isolation material, and that components on a few blocks of Balsa wood would sound much better than much of what is out there passing for isolation tweaks.
SoundLabs rooms - San Remo Gold Tower
Ultimates in one room, Milleniums (M1) with a Buggtussel subwoofer in the other. Now the strange thing about this is that they were both playing off of the same source, so you could not hear one without hearing the other. This made it quite difficult to tell exactly where each note was coming from. We did not get back to this room and so never did find out if this was just someone fooling around or whether the two systems were irretrievably and permanently attached to each other.Kharma/Lamm room - Alexis Park
Lamm ML2 monoblock amps, L2 preamp, CEC transport, DCS DAC and upsampler, Kharma 3.2 reference monitor speakers, ($50K?! of) Kharma cables. This was the system that was shown at the Stereophile HE 2002 in New York City that many thought was best-of-show and which we liked very much but bemoaned the lack of bass. Perhaps the speakers in NYC were not broken-in or whatever, because this system had much more in the bass department. Though the system still did not possess the deep bass one might expect of a similarly priced solid-state amp driving a similarly priced speaker like, say, the B&W Signature 800N, Revel Salon, or even the quite musical Avalon Eidolon - it was very, very ... musical... in a way that the afore-mentioned speakers will probably never be. Not that they may not be capable, but because they are so hard to drive - and it is so hard to find big, powerful amps that are also musical. In any case, this system would be great for an audiophile in a relatvely small to average sized room where they wanted music but had close neighbors (or family members) who did not.Tenor/Kharma/Audio Aero - Alexis Park
Tenor 75wp monoblocks, Audio Aero Capitole mk II, Kharma Midi-Grande, Shunyata power cords. OK. Now, we all go to these shows hoping to get blown away - to experience sonic bliss previously believed to be unachievable. But, in reality, you really go to each show not really expecting very much - after all, so few real breakthroughs are acheived in audio - just refinements on a theme. Thanks to Jonathan Tinn's Tenor/Kharma room - we, and many other people, got a good taste of Sonic Bliss at this year's CES.This system was musical, lively, timbre-ly accurate, blah blah blah. If there is a word for it, it had it. It not only had PRaT, it had what might be called inner PRaT. This was apparant during a Flamenco CD we played in many rooms this CES. The songs on this CD not only have a lively beat, but within the beats there were quick little riffs the guitarists would play - and THESE riffs would also have PRaT. After listening to this room, we listened for inner PRaT in other rooms - though some did have a little, they did not do it with the ease and gracefullness of this system in this room. If we have any criticisms it would be that the sound could be more 'open-sounding' (it sounded a little closed in, most likely the size of the room was at fault here. Remarkably, only two sound treatments were used - a sound-absorbing panel against the wall on each side of the room to the side/front of each speaker). Also, there was not a lot of 'air', the highs not quite as pure and happy, happy as they might be. And, though ceramic drivers do many things very well, they can have an attack that is a little too sharp - causing notes to be etched in time, rather than organically grown. We believe there to be better speakers than the Kharmas (even the Exquisites have some, a very few but some, competitors), and there are better amps than the Tenors for that matter - but better systems than the Kharma/Tenor? Certainly not at this show. No mistake about it, this is a world-class system design.
Tenor/Talon/Audio Aero - Alexis Park
Tenor 75wp, Talon, Audio Aero Capitole mk II. The bass was not as detailed and light on its feet compared to the same system using Kharma speakers. There was also not the midrange magic - that sweet ease with which the rhythms intertwine. Not a bad sound - the Talons are presumably just a little harder to drive than the Kharmas.Tenor/Rockport/Audio Aero - Alexis Park
Tenor 75wp, Rockport Antares, Audio Aero Capitole mk II. Did not get a chance to spin our test CDs in this room, but from our listening it seemed to have the same pluses and minuses as the Tenor/Talon room. The Rockports also seem to emphasize neutrality over musicality, and this seemed to overwhelm the inherent musicality of the Tenors.Piega (Sanibel) room - Alexis Park
Boooo. Piega C2 and C3 only. We were really looking forward to hearing the C8s, the C40s, even the P10s. Preferably with the Goldman amps that HiFi Farm pairs them with. Somebody, please bring the top line Piegas with a system to match to the next show... please?Acoustic Dreams - San Remo
VYGER turntable(s), Lumenwhite speakers, Ayon amps (renamed from VAIC), Hovland preamp. They had some room treatment problems here the first day - but it was much improved by the end of the show. Still not as involving and alive as some of the other rooms at the show this year. The VYGERs are certainly visually stunning turntables and, as we are hunting for a top-notch turntable these days, we appreciate the bend-over-backwards service that Acoustic Dreams provides with all of their products that they distribute or manufacture. We are keeping an eye on the VYGER as they slowly make their way into the U.S. I am not sure how many people know it - but Acoustic Dreams also make equipment racks - very nice equipment racks (though expensive). There is some nice technology involved in the rack manufacture that has us quite impressed.Pipedreams - multiple rooms:
1. Gamut 200 watt amps, Gamut CD player. Supra cables. Produced a hard sound, minimal micro dynamics.
2. Gamut Dreadnaught amps (if they aren't called this, perhaps they should be :-), CD-1, Valhalla cabling. Too loud, hard sounding.
3. New VAC monoblock amps, Rix Rax equipment racks. This was the best sound of the Pipedreams rooms. In our opinion the Pipedreams lack the ability to render fine detail - but they are tremendously responsive to midrange nuances in dynamics - and so pairing them with a good tube amp seems like it works just fine. We enjoyed listening to music in this room.TG Audio, CTC, Parasound, SoundLabs room - Alexis Park
Featuring the Parasound Halo JC-1 that just got rave reviews from Mike Fremer in Stereophile. Too much mid-range energy for our tastes, lacking finese and inner detail. Bob Crump then put on Marcus Miller's "Tales" CD. Nice and open, the Soundlabs certainly were not lacking for any power. We're getting the CD, by the way. Heard this system got better (less midrange energy) nearer the end of the show.MSB room - Alexis Park
MSB CD player (not the new DVD/SACD/CD combo that was display-only), MSG amps, Lumenwhite speakers. Competant sounding, but nothing special (we really came to hear the new combo player - hopefully we will be able to hear it at HE 2003). They did give away free DACs in exchange for a business card though: it is of the size of a business card and is a circuit board that runs off of 3 9V batteries. Cool.
Ensemble room - Alexis Park
As yet unreleased ~$7K transport, ~$7K DAC, solid-state amp, pre, and $9K speakers. Very nice, sweetly detailed, musical sound, posessing a little of that same inner PRaT that the Tenor/Kharma emotes. The overall sound had, all I can think to call it is, an burnt orange wood tonal quality to it. I can leap to conclusions and blame the speakers which, though appropriately sized for the room, are not quite up to the quality of the transport/DAC combo - but this is just guessing on our part.Hovland room - Alexis Park
Hovland HP-100 pre, Hovland's new $9K Radia solid-state amp, Lumenwhite speakers. This was also a very nice, sweetly detailed sound, posessing some of that same inner PRaT that the Tenor/Kharma emotes. It had a certain refinement and life that was very pleasant. Because Hovland has previously produced only very tubey equipment, my expectations were low. Not going back for a second listen, we do not know if these low expectations influenced our opinions of the sound. Hovland pairs very well with those Lumenwhites.Genesis - Alexis Park
A rare 2-story room with a static display downstairs and music playing (by invitation only) upstairs. We figured the likes of us were not welcome upstairs so we continued on to the next room.Lamm/Wilson room - Alexis Park
Lamm ML2 (sometimes) and Lamm ML1 (other times), L2 preamp, Stereovox cables, CEC transport, DCS upsampler, Wilson Watt/Puppy 7s. Surprise. The Wilsons sounding... musical? Very. The 7's are known to be a definite improvment over the 6's, by which it is usually meant that they have all the positive attributes of the 'Wilson sound' and won't bite your ears off. In the Lamm room they sounded very nice - perhaps a little tame, missing a little bit of the Wilson slam and effusive detail, but keeping that Wilson refinement and putting the whole package to good use: making music. Neli says: "Lamms made the Wilsons sound gOOOooooOOOOd!".Moondog Audio -
Welbourne Labs amps, Maya Horn. Very musical, very tubey, lacking some detail. Room resonances around 1000 - 5000hz were painful.Avantgarde - San Remo Gold Tower
Avantgarde Trios, Avantgarde Basshorn. Not sure we can fairly evaluate the sound. The bright red horns were awesome looking. And Mike really liked the looks of the chrome bass horn assembly. Boy, it's big, tho.Wisdom Audio - San Remo banquet room
Wisdom Infinite, Gamut CD1. Very nice sound stage. Probably the most realistically sized and feeling soundstage that we have heard. Not the ultimate in imaging or anything, just a nice 'true to life' feel. Nice big sound. Very smooth, top to bottom, and no lack of power. Capability is all there, but no PRaT, no excitement. Perhaps needs more work on the front end (a turntable maybe?). Wisdom is working on a new CDP that unfortunately was damaged in transit to the show.MBL room - Alexis Park
100% MBL system. We listened to the reference system as well as their smallest, most modest system with approximately 1 foot tall bookshelf speakers. Very nice sound - they were playing the reference system quite loud but it did not overwhelm or stab the ears like other systems do in such a small room. Is it just us or does the MBL equipment really win the award for the most gorgeous overall look award? Those speakers are just so ... cool. And the top-line transport/DAC (sigh). A 100% Burmester system is just a little too shiny and mirror-like and Hovland components are perhaps the most attractive of all but they are each so striking in themselves that they try to each steal the limelight from each other and do not work well (visually) with each other. Hmmmmm... back to the sound... The sound was first class as usual, missing just a tad of inner-dynamics and life. This room was always crowded.Lamm/Klangfilm Bionor ballroom-sized horn speakers.
Lamm ML2, L2, CEC transport, American Sound??? turntable . These speakers are each approximately 10 feet wide by 8 feet tall. What can we say: huge sound, able to render big band sound in a realistic size and seperation. Very real and powerful with an ease that I had not heard before. But, I do not know what Neli was thinking but what I was really thinking was that this looked like it came out of an old movie theater and that if we had a room big enough in our house, I could put these speakers along the front wall, put a front projection video screen between them, and recreate Count Basie, Glenn Miller, Miles Davis on demand. OK, it was the last day of the show and I was tired. I thought it really showed a love of the hobby for these people to go to the trouble to bring in these HUGE speakers (they had to disassemble part of the external wall just to get them, still in many pieces, into the room), pay for a room to set them up in, and play tunes so that we can all share this experience.Burmester - Alexis Park
100% Burmester, both a mid-priced (for Burmester) system and the top-of-the-line system. Both sounded very nice, and it is good to see that they are continuing to filter down technology from their leading edge components throughout the rest of their line of equipment. The sound? It was the Burmester sound: very detailed, lots of finesse, very competant, but not very muscial or involving (i.e. we would like more PRaT). We have a Burmester preamp in our personal system - it is very muscial and PRaTfull. All of the 100% systems (in descending order from distinctiveness of their 'company sound'): Ensemble, Burmester, MBL, even Audio Note have a distinctive 'company sound' in their rooms that makes one think (erroneously) that one has to either like this sound or go somewhere else for their components. There is a 'does not play well with others' aura to these rooms. Neli would really like to hear all of these companies mix their components into other systems too, so that she could better understand the characteristics of the individual components.Audio Note - Alexis Park
Audio note system, using smallish, what appeared to be 2-way, corner speakers (AN-5??), and a prototype amplifier which was still in two pieces with exposed electronics. Our first visit to this room found someone playing a 1940-era LP. The music was nice but the sound was not very satisfying, sounding more like mid-fi than we expected. We did make a point of returning to this room, and this time we played our own CDs. Very nice, detailed, musical. Similar to the Ensemble and Hovland rooms, but more musical than the Ensemble, not as rich sounding as the Hovland (which after all had the larger Lumenwhites). Nice stuff.BAT/Wilson/Shunyata - Alexis Park
BAT VK-51SE with the 75SE monoblocks, Wilson Watt/Puppy 7s. Big powerful sound. A little edgey, lacking finesse. Not as bad as Krell paired with the Wilsons, so we can understand if some listeners really liked this system, if they had not yet heard the Lamm/Wilson system at this show or the Wilson system with alternately VTL and Manley setup by Innovation in NYC at HE 2002.Day 5, Monday, January 13th
T.H.E. Show at the San Remo continues for an extra day beyond the C.E.S. conference at the Alexis. Some rooms have already started dissassembling their equipment (notably Halcro - which was off limits all day- unfortunate because we had allocated some time to hear their Eggleston Works room and their Wilson Maxx room once more).Best of Shows:
1. Jonathan Tinn room: Tenor 75wp monoblocks, Kharma Midi-Grand speakers, Audio Aero Capitole mk II CD player, Shunyata cabling
2. Tri-cell room: Acapella Violin speakers, Acustic Arts Amp-1 and Drive-1, Cardas cables
2. Lamm room: Lamm ML2/ML1 amplifier, L2 preamp, CEC transport, DCS upsampler, Wilson Watt/Puppy 7, Stereovox cables
2. Kharma room: Lamm ML2 amplifier, L2 preamp, CEC transport, DCS upsampler, Kharma 3.2 speaker and cables
2. Hovland room: Hovland solid-state Radia amp, HP-100 preamp, Lumenwhite speakers
2. Audio Note room: All Audio Note equipment (playing CD only)3. MBL room: All MBL Reference system
Honorable mentions:
Edge Electronics/Wisdom room: VPI TNT, Aesthetix Io phono stage, Edge Reference amplifiers, Edge Signature 1 linestage, Steven Norber speakers, Shunyata cabling (playing Satchmo LPs - best analog system of show)
Lamm/Klangfilm room: Lamm ML2 monoblocks, L2 pre, CEC transport, DCS DAC and upsampler, Stereovox cabling (most awesome demonstration system)
Audio Aero/Quad room: Audio Aero Capitole amp and mk II CD player, stacked Quad ESL 57s (they showed that Quads can sound good at a show)
Clearaudio room: ... new Anniversery edition turntable and rack (second best analog system of show)Rooms we really regret not getting a chance to hear (Argh!):
Tri-cell room #2: The Oscar Heil speakers
Halcro room #2: Halcros paired with the EgglestonWorks speakers
Lindemann: We tried and tried and could not find this room (double Argh!)
TG Audio room: Wanted to go back later in the show.
Follow Ups:
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Hi,Thank you for visiting and mentioning our rooms, much appreciated. Unfortunately, in both instances you've got the systems wrong. The DAC used in both our Damoka/Weiss/Lamm rooms with Wilson and our unique Siemens Bionor speakers was the Weiss Medea and not DCS!
Thanks for the correction. The version with pictures has been updated. I had the Weiss Medea DAC down in my notes, but it did not make it to the report. Please accept my sincere apologies.The review in the latest Stereophile does not do complete justice to either the look of the Weiss Medea (it is gorgeous) or its sound (though we did not hear it in isolation, it was present, as you duly noted, in two of the CES systems we found to be excellent).
**** Neli says: "Lamms made the Wilsons sound gOOOooooOOOOd!"."Althought I do not find that Lamm/Wilson demonstrated any interesting result but..."
Well, in hindsight you were certainly correct to recommend the Lamms. I know you like the Lamms a lot, but I personally was a little surprised that they (both the ML2 and ML1) worked so marvelously on the Watt/Puppys. I've heard a lot of 'manly man' amps fall flat on their faces driving the Wilsons.
Heard of a setup using a pair of one of the bigger Wilsons, and, even though Mr. Wilson does not necessarily recommend bi-amping, they are bi-amped with ML2s and the result is apparently quite excellent.
Certainly have come away from this C.E.S. with a lot of respect for the inate musicality of the Lamms.
Good coverage, although some corrections regarding the systems using Sound Lab speakers:The San Remo exhibit with Atma-Sphere and Purist used Millennium-1 (M-1) speakers in the first room you entered and the new Renaissance-3 (R-3) speakers with Buggtussel subwoofers in the other. The preamp was set up to work with either or both sets of amps, the latter being what you heard. I understand your confusion. Problems not mentioned are that the M-1s were positioned to angle toward where you entered the room rather than the center listening position on the couch, and there were no tiptoes, cones or spikes under the speakers to get them off the carpet. The system didn't image and lacked definition as a result.
The system at the Alexis Park using Parasound JC-1 amps used M-1s and was bright sounding and ill defined the first day yet by late Sunday was an entirely different experience. I've never heard anyone describe Sound Labs as lacking finesse and inner detail. I should mention I'm now a dealer for Sound Lab and Parasound, having purchased the products at consumer prices first. The CD you heard, Marcus Miller's "Tales", is a reference I use and revealed serious shortcomings in a couple of expensive systems people have raved about here on AA.
Brian Walsh
Thanks for the corrections/additional information - we updated the report to reflect yours (and other's) helpful feedback.We agree that the Sound Labs are one of the top 3 or 4 speakers in the world. We are hearing good things about the Parasound but have not had much experience hearing them (yet). Looking forward to getting the Marcus Miller CD - but all systems have serious (relative term) shortcomings - that is why there are still engineers and technicians hard at work improving and discovering new technologies to show at next years CES :-)
Nice to meet you and your better half! We had an absolute ball at the CES......I came down with a virus about the time I was supposed to be leaving Houston so I didn't arrive until late on Tuesday to plug in the digital system which takes 48 hours to start behaving....The system started coming together late Thursday night and finally developed some proper imaging Saturday and was finally putting out acceptable high-end sound Saturday/Sunday.....I wondered at the time if the Sound Lab speakers don't have a warm-up characteristic as they were plugged in late on Wednesday and the sound didn't start working until very late Friday.....Oh, heard the Rockport speakers with some high current solid state amps on Wednesday and they were making the walls suck in and out.......That system that few heard got my vote for best of show.......
The Soundlab is known by some to have a very long warm up. My friend, a Soundlab tweaker (says his Soundlabs take days and days to stabilize) suggested several years ago to Roger West that he ship his speakers to the shows with a large battery/inverter system continuously charging the staters so that they would never be uncharged. If it were me, I would do it. You pay lots of money to show your stuff. Why not show it the way it could sound!
system didn't start imaging until really late Friday (actually Saturday morning early) and it came to life during the day Saturday and was pretty amazing all day Sunday.....The speakers were plugged in just before dusk on Wednesday.....The speakers did just about everything else extremely well and recall at a customer's house they actually focused a piano to the point that I could see the top of the piano, something I have not been able to do with my old Rockports......Things were fine Saturday and especially Sunday so guess we'll just get there a day or so earlier next year......
"Nice to meet you and your better half! "Great to meet you, as well. She's my better half but don't you let HER know that! ;-)
"We had an absolute ball at the CES......I came down with a virus about the time I was supposed to be leaving Houston ..."
As I pop zinc and echinacea pills and try to drown my sore throat I cast a suspicious stare in your general direction...:-) Glad you seemed to have recovered by the time the show really started going; it is one of my greatest fears that I will be sick at a show and ruin the experience, especially after taking the all the trouble to get off my rear and actually make the effort of attending...
"...so I didn't arrive until late on Tuesday to plug
in the digital system which takes 48 hours to start behaving....The system started coming together late Thursday night and finally developed some proper imaging Saturday and was finally putting out
acceptable high-end sound Saturday/Sunday.....I wondered at the time if the Sound Lab speakers don't have a warm-up characteristic as they were plugged in late on Wednesday and the sound didn't start
working until very late Friday....."That is the scuttlebutt I am hearing as well and we regret not getting back there...
"Oh, heard the Rockport speakers with some high current solid state amps on Wednesday and they were making the walls suck in and out.......That system that few heard
got my vote for best of show....... "Darn. People ask us, publically and privately, if we have heard X and Y...
We say: no
They say: Oh it was so very excellent!
We say: Darn, we just HAVE to do a better job next year of hearing more rooms!
It is like, say, finishing a pint of Hagen Daz Vanilla ice cream and THEN remembering one had bought some imported chocolate syrup to dose it with... There is this feeling of... regret and wishing one could turn back the clock.... :-)
My digital system is so old it has cobwebs on it and I met Jeff Tonkin (CEO-Hovland) at the Stereophile party and we both laughed about it as he still uses that eight year old G&D Transforms unit I rebuilt all those years ago at the CES each year as he can't find anything that works better! The clock is in a potted module and it just takes a few days to start behaving....Keith Herron mentioned his amps just didn't sound worth a darned for about three to four days and imagine some of this is due to the very low humidity and high static in Las Vegas as well compared to his native St. Louis....I used half a bottle of Nordost ECO-3 spray in our room and that seemed to help......Not easy to do a room at the CES is my point.....
Cetaele (aka Bob)
The room you list as Welborne Labs is acutally Emotive Audio that used the Little Maya version from Welborne Labs. Welborne used the full sized Maya (patena copper colored) with their electronics.Thanks for the detailed view and your right somethings didn't sound the same to my ears. Full agreement on the sound and sentiment for the Lamm Bionor room/treat.
Thanks for the correction.re: "... Lamm Bionor room/treat" ... what a great way to put it! A nice tasty treat for the ears (and soul).
x
Mike,thanks for the great report. i have been reluctant to post on my take from CES since, like you, the Kharma/Tenor room set up by Jonathan Tinn was (by far to my ears) the most satisfying to me. since the amps in that room were my personal Tenors, it was just too personal for me to comment. i felt like anything i would say touting that room, or knocking any other room in comparison would sound like sour grapes. there were other excellent rooms....but none that had the 'magic' and really pulled me in like the Kharma/Tenor room.
your description of that room matches my perceptions almost exactly. i live every day with the Kharma Exquisite's and those Tenors......which simply build on the strengths of the CES room.....add more PRAT, deeper bass extention, and better sources (read vinyl). my room is fully tweaked and for a 12 foot wide room (the CES room was 12 foot, 4 inches wide) sounds pretty good.i have always enjoyed your postings and seem to hear what you hear/percieve. i actually sat next to yourself and Neli in a few rooms but can't remember which ones. as i read your perceptions of the various rooms our take on each room performance is so similar it is 'kinda spooky'. you have saved me the trouble of posting since it is much easier to refer to your report.
i finally got my amps back Thursday night (very traumatic to be without my beloved Tenors). i did order a set of the new 300 watt hybrid Tenors to compare to my OTL Tenors. (i am told they are better is some/many ways....hard to imagine, but Tenor has pretty high credibility with me).
next time our paths cross (maybe the Stereophile Show in S.F.?) i will be sure to introduce myself.
best regards,
Hi Mike,OK, now you've done it. Now we're going to be wondering which one you were for the next 6 months! You had darn well better introduce yourself next time... :-)))
I think it is really kind of 'spooky' that jtinn's room hasn't got more recognition - maybe because his room this year was so much better than his room last year that did get lots of recognition?
We brought (dragged :-) a friend to the room who, though we have disagreed (sometimes... uh, make that frequently :-) on what was 'good sound' in the past, was raving about the MBL room, and then the Lamm/Wilson room (great rooms, no question). After listening to the Tenor/Kharma room he too thought it was the best at the show. My point is that it is not just 'mike ears', that love that sound, other strange and bizarre ears (he does not read this board very often :-) do also.
We are thinking that maybe the new 300 watt hybrid Tenors will drive our Acapella Campaniles to good effect, figuring that the Tenor 75wp does not have enough oomph to drive any but the larger, very-high sensitivity Acapellas. For the pure solid-state approach we are using the excellent Edge Signature monoblocks - which are indeed truly amazing, their speed and smoothness making us question even the need for a tubed or hybrid approach. But we have to explore all possibilities, just in case there is a different but equally beautiful sound out there to be discovered, now don't we? :-)
Your system undoubtably must be one of the most beautifully sounding systems available today. By spending the time (and money) to explore various synergys between state-of-the-art components, and sharing your results, you have blazed a trail and made it possible for others to achieve the same heights with much less time, effort and cost. We here are all explorers of the hidden reaches of sonic bliss, but your style and consistancy of reporting what you find sets a great model for the rest of us. Uh oh, ...this is turning into a love fest... :-)
Mike,since i can't think of an appropriately humble but clever thing to say i'll just say thanks for the nice words.......(insert appropriate Romy dig here for balance).
i also like the Edge amps but i think i preferred them last year on the Lumen Whites.....they seemed a little more natural. to me ss amps are so system sensitive......it is almost impossible to know how good they are without playing around with them some. there always seems to be some tonal balanceing thing happening.
'if' Tenor can retain that unbelievable natural tonal clarity, inner textural shading, and micro-dynamics with the 300 watt hybrid that exists with the OTL's it will be the ultimate amp IMHO.....we will see (i believe they will do (have done) it).
see ya in S.F.
The Audio Note speakers are the AN E/SEC and are all silver two ways. The amps are not open prototypes. The preamp, however, is brand new with two enormous outboard power supplies each running one of the two tubes within the line stage.The music was Peter's delight as were some of the cd transfers of early 78 recording.
Do you think if the AN-E's were out in the room like normal spks there would a significant improvement in sound?It seems odd that they were placed in a corner with a huge equipment rack in between.
How's the soundstage and image?
Well, I as I remember it now the soundstaging and imaging was not bad, though in my notes I only mention that they were clear sounding, had good prat, and were tonally accurate. It was my impression that these speakers were designed to stand in corners. But I guess not after looking at the audio note website - I imagine the people running the room put them close to the corners in order to enhance bass, figuring that any small reduction in soundstaging and imaging was well worth it.Perhaps some AN-E users out there can better clarify optimal placement stratgeies for these speakers and better speculate as to how significantly the bass was enhanced/soundstaging damaged by putting these speakers in the corners...?
Dear Justacoder!Disregard what it says on the web site, the information is 6 years old!
They are designed to sit in the corner, but as with anything ese in life there are no rules without exceptions.
You saw them at the show, 2 inches from the sidewalls, angled about 30 degrees and about 5 incles from the rearwall, worked ok in that room.
I set them up myself.
Sound staging and imaging is not affected by this position, as you heard for yourself, provided off course this information is present on the software, otherwise it would be a construction of the speakers, would it not??
Honestly, I also own the AN E Sp and find that the best compromise is to place them like normal speakers, that is 4' from the front wall and 2' from the side wall.Bass was never a problem in terms on quality and quantity. Same goes for PRAT and tonality.
Thanks for the info/corrections.If you mean the double Quads in the Audio Aero room... yes, and we liked them very much (enough to give them honorable mention).
what do you do to improve the bass on the Acapella's that you sell?
Not sure exactly what you mean by your question... If you mean how do we optimize the bass of the Acapella Violins and/or Campaniles (the larger Acapellas need to have their bass optimized about as much as Bill Gates needs to beg for spare change), then we use the standard approaches everybody uses: High current solid-state amps or modest to high-powered tube amps, placement optimization (which can be finessed by the seperate adjustments on the speaker for midrange and tweeter output and crossover frequencies), spikes (Brian Ackerman at Artistic Audio manufactures these for the Acapellas), isolation platforms (yep, under the speakers, people use the Acapella Fondato Silenzio), and even pairing with a good subwoofer (Tapsa at TL-Audio uses Audio Physics Minos subwoofers with the Campaniles - though he does not have the Campanile Highs which add quite a bit more control and definition to the bass and so begs the question of whether to add a subwoofer at all). I probably left out a few techniques, but you get the idea...Or do you mean how did they optimize the bass of the Violins in the CES room between Thursday and Sunday? We were curious as well and the answer was: the system just 'settled' and burned in, they fine-tuned the placement a little, and they cleaned the contacts with a Cardas solution.
....and some super pictures on your link.
Great work!
System Details
(nt)
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