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Aloha,It's interesting that sharing a philosophy of economic moderation would draw such venum! I've travelled quite a distance on the subject within my own path. Shortly after my spiritual awakening I gave everything I owned away, absolutely everything, to strangers in the street. Car, stereo, money, all possession save a small backpack with a few supplies and set out into the world with literally no idea where I would end up. At the time I felt poverty was the true path. Over the years I've softened a bit and feel that poverty holds no spiritual benefit, that poverty is a disease. But I realized that part of that perception was accurate in the sense that wealth is an equal disease. So now I allow myself a few toys but I never pay retail, always used/demo. These few toys are in no way a violation of the path of economic moderation and the spiritual ideals held within.
But given the tone of most of the replies in the thread below, I do not feel comfortable with participating in this forum anymore. It is so odd that an opinion of economic moderation would set so many folks off. So be it.
Farewell Audio Asylum and thanks for the audio advice. I wish each and every one of you nothing but the best, blessings to all. I no longer feel welcome and that's usually the best sign that it's time to leave.
FWIW, here is a brief bio about my life. You can reach your own conclusion about whether or not I'm a monk:
"I was quite a normal person in college when a series of events began to unfold which thrusted me in to an all consuming awakening which lasted a year (the intense part lasted a year, the process continues to this day but is MUCH easier). It was extraordinarily difficult, when I came out the other side, I was not who I was before. There had been a deep and fundamental transformation. During that phase of the transformation I was really almost crazy, not quite, but pretty close, I was unable to work or function well in soceity, all my time was spent just being present to this sort of divine eruption. Day after day of unending agony. Words cannot describe how difficult it was. It made depression seem like nirvana, it was that hard. I was fortunate to have people around me who understood that it was a spiritual awakening because I thought I was just plain insane.
There were 3 short breaks during that year, each lasted about a day, and were somewhat transcendent,........ there was a large room with unbelieably powerful transcendent light pouring in the windows, outside the house there was a river, an unbelievably pure river, pure with love, not just water, there was a fountain, a fountain for all to drink from if they were thirsty, thirsty for truth. It flowed never endingly, it was pure truth, a truth beyond thought, beyond anything of the gross plane. There were others at the rivers edge, they understood the essence of that water, yet it was very obvious that the physical world was VERY far away from that reality. The big view would pass and it would be back to the trenches, back to the utterly insanely difficult ground work. There were a couple more similar experiences.
Coming out the other side of that year long period I began to experience a sort of spontaneous meditation and kundalini activity that occurs absolutely everyday without fail. It's not a bother, in fact I'm fortunate that it's all very integrated into my every day life in a balanced way. It is the manifestation of a continuing awakening, in that I do not see myself as being at any particular end, everyday is a discovery. It's sort of a divine discovery channel, where all this will lead remains to be seen. I'm 31 now, have many years to sort that out.
Awakening has continued daily, in the form of spontaneous states of meditation that come on their own, I perform no practice to bring them about. But a year into all the happenings is when it was clear a monk's life was the life for me. I gave away all of my possessions, all but a small backpack with a jacket and a change of clothes, and 10 bucks in my pocket. I set off on a journey to find a suitable monastery, hitch-hiking out of Sandpoint, Idaho. I just went, not knowing where I would end up. I wanted to join a monastery, probably buddhist, but was open to other possibilities. The journey continued for 2 years, each step of the way was made possible by the generosity of strangers. I never once asked for money, when I needed it, it came. The journey carried me across the united states, New Zealand, Australia, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, India and Nepal. Searching, searching, searching for a monastic tradition that seemed appropriate. I visited christian monasteries, buddhist monasteries, and many ashrams of various flavors. Spent a month in Dharmsala, India, observing the DL's monastery and was able to meet the Dalai Lama twice. It is an enormously large story, which I'll spare you the details. Yet none of the monasteries nor monastic traditions struck me as very appealing.
I spent hours observing the goings on in these organizations. I saw many genuine monks, and I met many that seemed completely ungenuine. The gurus I observed were largely unimpressive. I observed the enormous political nature of the organizations, I observed the obsessive repeating if not abuse of mantras and chanting. These are generalities, but correct ones according to my experience. In the end I could not in good faith subject myself to the confines of these traditions, to do so would be counter-religious in my eyes. I went to countless "holy" places, but to be honest, I found that a peaceful walk in the woods held more religious signfigance to me than all of the temples invented by man. It became obvious that my monastery was in my heart, right where it was all along, and so it is today. I had found my monsastery, it was within.
I live a "monastic" life, celebate, no intoxicants, and just basic possessions (with a few minor indulgences) that allow one to function in a modern world. I get by on a budget of about $7,000 a year, when you pay rent, that ain't easy (LOL)! Must note that I've taken no vow, as vows seem arrogant to me. My chastity is a product of realization, not discipline. I live this way because it is a fact of realization, I simply have absolutely no desire to live otherwise. A vow creates conflict between what you are and what you want to be, to my eyes vows have no value. If you realize the religious life rather than just adopt it, then you don't need vows.
And so it goes, 10 years and counting, and each day I'm more immersed in the religious life, each day more grateful for the joy & work that has come. I read few books, haven't read a religious text in several years, instead I rely on the realization to blossom on it's own, via the daily spontaneous meditations and kundalini activity that arises (there's nothing wrong with reading, I just don't hanker to it personally). I practice no technique for I have no reason to, it would be a hinderance. Not a single day has past in the past 10 years without the meditation coming. Some days are more intense than others, but the presence is the same.
I have no goal, no direction set, I'm not so arrogant, instead I just allow the realization to unfold in it's own natural way. I never asked for any of this, it just happened. Growing up my main desire was to have lots of money! Ironic." So, that's sort of where I'm coming from, hope all that makes sense. I'm no authority and hope anything I would write on this forum or anywhere else would be examined and questioned thoroughly albeit politely. "
So Audio Asylum, slam me if you will. But I leave knowing that what has been told to you is truth and given with honesty.
Namaste,
John
Follow Ups:
I must confess that I don't understand your position on almost anything. I spent my own years in the military and during college sorting through the standard problems of the human condition. I was wild and pretty crazy (troubled) as a teenager. Lots of drinking, fighting and raising hell with little reguard for my actions. I just was working my way through the imaturity that most youth have but being a little more distructive and dangerous in the process.I'm a wacko Christian now (joke). Hope and pray you can work it all out.
Hello Audio Experts!
I see that DS has sent the board into an ethical tizzy. The answer to the question posed is easy (IMHO!):
Two things: "those who can, give; those who can't..." I really have no idea what the true quote is, but the idea is that those who have enough should help those who don't. This is some kind of Christian quote, not from communism (or liberalism, or conservativism...)!
"Increased capability means increased duty". Again, a mangled attempt at quoting someone. Ie: If you are a small person who sees a physical crime, you might not be able to stop it, but the big guy who can and doesn't, deserves blame. This can be applied to money matters, also.
Now,in real life we often have no idea of the good or wicked things our nieghbors are up to, let alone someone on an internet chat board (exceptions being people like Mother Theresa, or our VP who made $20 mil and donated less than 1% to charity)!
But just increasing your net worth and giving to a charity doesn't cut it either, as you have seen on "The Sopranos". People can harm with money, or else we would be x-times a better society in 1900 because the economy is x-times bigger. The converse is that it is hard to help others when you can't dig yourself out of your own ditch.
So, is Suzy bad or is DS bad? Got me!
Murf (Not good enough....)
Hello John -However you may see yourself, please do not confuse your own growth as a person with judgement of others. You may have a strong set of core beliefs about how you should run your life, but stating it as opinion without saying "THIS IS TRUE ONLY FOR MYSELF" will be percieved by many as a personal attack.
Using namaste to sign off was not appreciated by me - i understand it is the word you chose, but coming off as judgemental sitting behind a computer is not hard to do. Please don't use "namaste" when signing off when you fail to understand what it means - bowing to the divine in someone else. Your post was seen by me as bowing simply to yourself.
Money as a subject is a strange thing to many people. Just the fact that you own a computer and stereo puts YOU at the top of the human food chain. When your opinion is viewed as a personal attack on spending, oh say, $50,000 on a stereo - you fail to realize yourself as a "free-lance monk".
Judgement, IMO is very important to people - if you cannot judge things, what are you as a highly evolved cerebral cortex? - not much at all. The difference lies in knowing what is true judgement for yourself and not attempting to scream it, say it, impose it etc on others. While this may not have been what your intent was, on the medium of the internet specifics are important to some people.
Judgement without thought these days is rampant. My own political views are not shared by many of my friends. Yet they understand when I critique a POV on an issue vs. a personal attack.
It's like the confused kid in my sanskrit class said when seeking direction in his life - "I need a guru to tell me what to do". You sir, IMO are seeking something from life which you do not even know. I hope you find the right path to whatever you seek. If you seek only a path and I have misunderstood your intentions, then I apologize. But as the true monks and gurus have told me in my life, aim to see higher in yourself and others without quick judgement - ie - don't knock em if you don't know what the hell you are talking about. As the son of immigrants who came here with nothing but education, I was too young to experience their struggle. My family moved up economically with speed and success as I got older. I'm sure many of the individuals on this board work just as hard to live in nice homes and drive cars. Your judgements on an expensive hifi systems are no different from the person who thinks driving a Benz is an insult to the AIDS crisis in Africa. It's a fact of life that everything has hierarchies. IMO, you have failed to see this and your statements have reeked of arrogance.
Chirag Shah
nt
is taking yourself too seriously. May your god go with you.
up yours.
I'm not sure if you're going to stop by and read the responses to your final post... it seems that you're pretty fed up with the goings on here, so I doubt it. However, I feel the need to respond on this board, as some of your choices in life have been ridiculed.none of this has very much to do with audio equipment, but with something else I think we have in common.
I believe finding oneself via spirituality can be acomplished in many ways, but I think there is an underlying level of "sameness" that we all reach. A common ground if you will. I recently started on my own path, and find that unlearning a lot of what I thought to be true was the hardest thing, and relearning ways to approach life has been very easy. You see, I think the world we live in is made up of several layers, sort of like transparencies laid on top of each other. I've spent a lot of my life stuck in one of those layers, walking around without a point, looking for someone or something to guide me to what I was looking for: completeness, hapiness, love, satisfaction, whatever. Having people move in and out of my life and viewing them as transactions - I'd meet someone I knew I could learn from, and hopefully I had something to share as well. When it was time for one of us to leave, I didn't fight it at all, and I wouldn't get so attached that saying goodbye would be a hard process. I used to think of it as a desire not to turn an important person to a waste of time, but now I realize it was completely self protection.
I have a theory I've carried around with me for years, and I'll share it with you... I think people are like boxes. Picture it - six sides: four walls, a top and a bottom. What happens is, we share who we are only in parts, if we show someone one side, there's still five sides hidden. If someone comes in at the junction of two walls, they'd see two sides. At best someone can see a corner, and three sides. But always, always, there's something hidden. I took a lot of comfort in it, that I could be whatever the person in front of me wanted me to be, and that I would never expose fully who I was, and they wouldn't either. A transaction.
At the same time, I had a desire to meet someone I could get into the box, because then they could see all of me. I'd meet people, have relationships with some of them, and love their company. But I'd throw theories by them, seeing if they were worthy of getting inside. It never happened...
I know now, and I won't get into what I had to learn to get here, that it's not about getting someone in the box, it's about me getting out of it. The I could just be, and I wouldn't be constricted by walls. It's the realization of my life, and everything I've learned since then grown out of it. And I think because of it, I've found love.
Back to the transparency thing - I feel like I've gotten the chance to step back and see the whole picture. Have you ever played chess and lost because you get so focussed on one strategy that you lose sight of the whole board? I have. I don't anymore.
We live in a life where things will always intersect with one another, things overlap in many ways. There is a lot of fucked up things that happen, and there are ways to react to them. One is to condemn, another is to ignore, and another is to do something about it. From your recent posts, it seems like you've chosen the latter, I commend you on that. However (there's always a however isn't there), you honestly have no right to condemn anyone's choices in life. You have lived yours the best you can, you need to let others live their's the way they choose. Let go.
I suspect that you're wiser than I am. I know you've experienced worlds that I have yet to see. Thank you for doing so much to make the world a better place, but please don't lose sight of acceptance. The amount of money one person spends to find personal fulfillment is a means to find their peace. There is, and never will be, anything wrong with that.
One of my new credos in life: See the big picture. The rest is just details.
How does this relate to what's happened here over the past day? Ask yourself what you could possibly accomplish by attacking Suzy for spending the amount of money she has. If your post helped your cause at all.
I believe, sincerly, that focussing on money is not they way to improve our world. It's through awareness. You've been to India, probably seen a sweatshop, killing, and God knows what else. I suspect that, among other things, lead you to finding a life of moderation. I doubt any sort of attack would have reached the same end.
I hope you continue emailing me, about stereo equipment as you have been or about the world as you see it. Wither way, I wish you luck on your journey.
carlo
... good read.I have a theory I try to keep in mind, too.
It's pretty simple. I try to remember that,
for the most part, people act out of two
basic motivations:
1) to express love; or
2) to ask for love.My 2¢, for now.
æ
i'm writing that down.thank you.
carlo
> How does this relate to what's happened here over the past
> day? Ask yourself what you could possibly accomplish by
> attacking Suzy for spending the amount of money she has. If
> your post helped your cause at allNice post Carlo, but I didn't quite understand this comment. Why should his comments be viewed as an "attack?" I don't think he attacked her at all. To me an attack involves an outright offense, it's harsh, maybe vulgar. I'm looking for the variables in his post that would constitute an "attack." I don't see it. He simply explained how he felt about a certain topic. I can see that you might have an argument about John's own personal convictions and his desires to not let things like this bother and drive him to comment publically. The whole self control idea. But as for classifying his comments as an attack, I'm not seeing it.
Sean H
The boundary between stating an opinion, passing judgement on others, and insulting them is rather fuzzy. Ideally we would all understand completely what effects our statements have on others, but sometimes our worldviews don't match. So, for example, one could say, "man, something really smells bad here. Oh, it's you." - is this an innocent expression of opinion (just commenting on one's own perception), passing judgement on others, or simply being insulting? Depends on context, one supposes. The context of Suzy's post was not exactly one asking for opinions on the morality of luxury purchases. Thus, while DancingSea thought he was stating a perfectly valid expression of his personal conclusions, he managed to come across quite differently to others.Life has many perspectives
Cheers,
Andrew
to show what John has tried to communicate. Here's another story for you, I think it'll explain my views best (I'll try to stop doing this, but it's the only way I can relate my experiences)Last Thursday two close friends of mine had a "Sweat Shop Fashion Show" as part of a Feminist movement at UCLA. I didn't attend, but I was read the script of the announcers while it was in production. Anyway, the show consisted of people walking down runways in trendy clothes and an entertaining commentary, but between praises of how good someone looked, one of the announcers would "casually" mention that the clothes were manufactured at a sweat shop. The two of them would go into a dictation of facts about the amount of money earned by employees (25 cents/hr, 60 cents at the more "humane facilities), and compare it to how much the corporation's CEO earned the past year. They'd talk about 12 and 16 hour days, about imigrants who have to work six months before they pay off debts incurred by coming into another country, about working conditions that are best described as horrifying. It was brilliant... they never said anything was wrong, they exposed people to a reality and hopefully they walked away from it with something to think about.
I don't think any number of statistics a bunch of college kids (or any activist) shares will numb the pain of the deprived. What I do think is that the best way to reach people is through awareness and exposure, not by saying what they are doing is wrong. I sincerlly believe that knowledge of situations will lead to an improved world, not by calling people's actions sick, perverted, or greedy.
I think I interpreted John's words as an attack on Suzy via passing judgement on her actions. Now that time has passed, I think he was so disgusted by the situation he had to state his feelings starkly, with an apology at the beginning and end, but a body of attack. I can't blame him, once again he's seen things I have not. But I do not think his course of action is a path to peace or enlightenment.
That said, I commend John for challenging thought and promoting discussion. This may not be the best avenue for it, but any encouragement to exchange ideas about the world we live in has to be taken advantage of.
And no, I have no ill will about how much Suzy or any other person spends on their stereos. Once again, I think people have to do whatever they need to for their happiness and well being. I will admit though that lately, I've looked at mine with a faint feeling of guilt.carlo
...Carlo and Andrew. I guess it's all a matter of individual perception really. I can easily see how some would see his actions as passing judgement. I'm just having a hard time saying it was an attack. But nonetheless, regardless of all the different points of views and analogies, I still think this was way over blown and John received some highly unecessary "abuse" that went beyond the scope of the comments he made and into a personal realm. That was too bad.Sean H
this turned into a crazy monster and took over the board, and drove John and RBP (who I've never communicated with, but seems like an alright guy) away.let's hope this is the peak of how bad the attacks will get.
happy listening, enjoy the music, and all of that...
carlo
John,Personally, I think you should stick around a while. Although I and others may not agree with all you have said, you offer opinions and thoughts that seem to challenge the norm. Just keep dancing in your seas, but try not to part them in the future.
Regards,
Gregg
Dancing Sea:You are fortunate beyond belief! I've been doing Kundalini meditation for years, and have yet to have had an awakening that profound. You already have everything you need (but you already know that). Go in grace...
I can appreciate much of what you have written and wish you well. One day, I'd like to step beyond the thought of, "I want, I want".
Ever notice that the truly insane are completely convinced of their own sanity. . . . .
Hm, Ayn Rand even turns altruism into selfishness.
The real question is how does one live a sane life in an insane world?BTW, you are incorrect about Rand.
Um, she did a pretty good job of it in her book The Virtue of Selfishness (the bit about doing things for others because it makes us feel good, eases guilt, supports self-image etc.)
She branded altruism as evil specifically because it was selfLESS, and thought sacrifice of the self was the ultimate evil. For her, doing things for selfish reasons was good. In her view, the ONLY reason to help out others (where it is going to cost you something important) is if the person you are helping is more important to you then the other values you are giving up (be it time, money, risking danger, etc . . .). I think it is safe to say that Rand reviled and loathed all forms of altruism and selflessness.
What I got out of it was that she loathed people who who did not deliver what was paid for and conducted business dishonestly. Also, that there really is no such thing as true altruism... you pay for whatever you get.... a feeling of pride, a feeling that you are a good person, a bid for salvation, to relieve our own pain at seeing someone else's plight. You could basically boil the 50 page John Galt speech in Atlas Shrugged down to "for value recieved". Performaing an act of charity is paying for some intangable emotional response we get from doing it so preforming an act of charity is really a selfish act if you look beneath all the white-wash.
I've read all of her stuff... I came away thinking that she was like most great thinkers... Very good at over examining one specific facet of reality while shutting out the rest.
> > Ever notice that the truly insane are completely convinced of their own sanity. . . . . < <True.
On the flipside, one that thinks he/she is insane or on the verge of insanity truly is not. The ability to think rationally precludes an insanity verdict.
Although greed in itself is *not* good, enjoying life AND living within one's means is the ultimate expression of reality and internal harmony.
Regards
nt
I think this story has some potential. I'm gettin' a vibe--say John Cussack in the lead, although Honduras sounds more impoverished than Maui. For the female lead, maybe the chick in DRIVEN, Estella Warren. I like her and she's HOT right now. We might just have to ditch the 'STEREO' angle as most won't relate. How 'bout we make you someone who's interested in 'kitchen appliances?' Yeah...that way we can have a tie in with Ginsu when you chuck it all away.Honduras makes some nice cigars, seafood/beer is cheap and well armed security is next to nothing, it'll be a blast.
Where's my typewriter?
Chris
poor and I've been wealthy. Poor sucked!
"I've been poor and I've been rich.
Rich is better" - Michael Caine.The Rich rule, the poor suffer, and it's better to be on top of the dung heap than buried down at the bottom.
-Joe (not all that rich but better off than yesterday).
Sorry to see you go, John. It is difficult at times, I think, for people to know whether they have things, or if those things have them. The former is acceptable, and the latter is not, at least for me. And yet I have seen people with very, very, much that are very free, and those that have little that are very controlled by what little they have. Poverty is a disease, and one that will not soon be eradicated--I am pleased to see you are thoughtful of such things, and may you prosper in the things that really count.Jeff
I haven't heard anything about hifi in any of posts, maybe I missed something. Don't go away mad - just go away.
I wrote a harsh response below because I'd had a bad day. I know how the chains of possession bind the soul to suffering. I want to help you. I am willing to take on the hell of material attachment to ease your burden. I notice you have a 24 inch Sony Wega TV. My own humble Sony is almost 20 years old. Of course, since I am doing you a huge favor, I expect you to pay postage.
john,you claim to be a "freelance monk" and live in moderation, but you have chosen to live in the most expensive and exotic place on the face of the earth. most people would interpret that as very indulgent. with the system you have and the computer access you have you obviously don't live "as a hermit" in a hut in the jungle. you have chosen to pay the cost of living in Maui as a lifestyle choice just as many of us have chosen to have our "paradise" in our audio rooms. i don't resent or criticise your choices; please don't resent, judge, or criticise ours.
10 days ago you signed off a post about Seattle as currently from Maui; if i have misinterpreted that i apologise. but your condemnation of our materialism and excess doesn't hold water to me.
ultimatly we must be happy with ourselves as human beings.
i bear you no ill will, but worry about yourself.
mikel
People that simply do not understand your life perhaps need some enlightning as well.It was fun, but I am gone.
Bye Bye.
Shoot me an email. I've lost your email addy when my 'puter crashed a week and half ago. I knew you were out of town. Would like to stay in touch if possible.John.
I completely erased my address book, starting a new one that is more meaningful.
RBP...Here ya go. jp65@qwest.net
Hope to see/hear ya around these parts...
John.
Bill, I will miss you. I can tell you are one of the good guys.
I don't understand, and I think you owe some explanation.
Man, I really enjoy your insightful posts. But I understand. See ya RBP.Sean H
nt
b
I seemed to have glossed over the whole thread that happened earlier, but just read it now. Regardless of what was right or wrong, I'm not taking sides, I respect the right to be able to say or do what you want. It's a shame you've got so much flack for this, and a shame you've decided to leave. I'm sorry that you have been mouled for simply revealing your personal beliefs, as difficult or offensive as it might be for some to hear. Farewell John, keep in touch through email as we have been doing.Sean H
In your case, your "spirituality" is laced with a large amount of hubris and superiority. You are just so much better than all of us unenlightened materialists. Well here's some news for you: my spirituality is closely tied to music and I think no price is too high to experience great music. That's my kundalini yoga dude. I think you need to find a message boards for schizophrenics, since your college breakdown sounds like a textbook case.
Odd how my generation, (the so-called Boomers), was supposed to be all about peace, love, blah blah, woof woof. Somehow, somewhere, that turned around.Now it turns out that we are even more materialistic and greedy than our parents' generation (those we ranted and railed against) ever thought of being.
I think the reason you were so viciously attacked is that it stirs the feelings of a lot of the "Woodstock generation". They see what they used to be, or at least, what they professed to be, and their guilt comes out in anger and insults and arrogance.
I have been lurking here quite awhile and have noticed an increasing mean-spiritedness. The bragging is rampant along with the self-importance. Occasionally, a good piece of advice sneaks into the defecation stream.
Notice that ever-bigger rigs still fail to make them feel the music. So perhaps you should let them have their boastings, crude jokes, oh-too-clever postings, and phallic symbol stereos. That is all some have left in their lives.
you are searching for Nirvana in religion, we are searching for it in tubes.There are many many religions in tubes too, push-pull and single ended being the major once, and we have common enemy (SS Satan) to defeat. :-)
Enjoy.
Adi
Gee, I thought Bose was the root of all evil...
gee, i thought underwater listening rooms were the root of all evil...
It's moist, often cold, dampy and ugly deep down here, derived from any form of beauty, spinrags all around you, but being there, alone with yourself, listening to a piece of music nobody else likes, because it's not audiophile, dang! That's great and that's freedom, I think you'd understand it. The reverberation is great, by the way."Rich boys playing and tweaking with their toys,"
Rob
_____________________________Department of Sanitation, Wagner & Boots Division
Hey Rob is that the biggest horn in the world? How many miles of sewer to yopu need to go really low? Can you vary the notes by changing the depth of sludge? How do you synchronise the performers around the system to get the right sound?
PS Good to see you are still riding with the Valkyrie when you can- did I see you in the thunder clouds yesterday?
Yes, Satyr.Them biggest horns, not necessarily driven by Tannoy dual-concentrics reside deep in the Sewers, where this labyrinth of of gateways, manholes and large TUBES creates the best possible sound available: natural, inspiring and simply wonderful, so wonderful, that the stench is awesome, all-embracing and completely serving the music.
For natural bass, we use stone tubes instead of the iron onces, so with a proper 5.1 system this beats every cinema anywhere and you won't even need the movie, because that's our fantasy being projected against the dripping walls of the Sewers.
Drip, drip, drip,
Grane! I need to go to another part, where's my horse? Grane!?
Rob
_____________________________Department of Sanitation, Wagner & Boots Division
I admit that I'm a lousy excuse for a Buddhist, but I wouldn't write such prideful, judgemental prose as "an utter lack of either social conscience or responsibility." A Buddhist priest once told me that the most important word in the English language is "LET." Think of how productively you could have asked the Asylum Inmates for donations to help the poor without saying "I'm right, you're all living in sin." Now, in addition to the poor, you're suffering and we're suffering. Whether you're rich or poor, Pride kicks Greed's ass. You're welcome back when your personal vessel is truly empty, we'll still be here.
Hm, my vessel is only half full. Must be an engineering safety factor. (^-^)y
v
Well, it's like that old question about is the glass half-full or half-empty... but then you could look at as the glass simply being over-engineered... but then I remembered they always say use capacitors rated at twice the rated working voltage (which are usually under-rated a bit by the manufacturer) just to be on the safe side. Then I realized that everything is just perfect because, with normal usage, my cup will not runeth over! (^0^)
And we are all guilty of both. Sean
>
...it's the same the whole world over, isn't it a blooming shame!"From the other side of the Atlantic all American expenditure seems excessive, but then why should we moan?
It was your industrial strength that helped to win both world wars, and the collapse of communism into dog-eat-dog capitalism has showed the lack of a viable alternative.However, in the capitalist world, Britain is still the home of moderation, certainly in expenditure since our rewards are lower and more heavily taxed - except of course for the very rich.
So as a born-originally moderate, I can take issue with Dancing Sea's naive ramblings maybe with greater validity than Americans who by his definition are all grabbing for the almighty dollar.
Dear Dancing Sea - you're talking bollocks, sorry about that, but the sound of well-fed liberals trying to impose unrealistic philosophies would make Third World workers trying to keep themselves and their children alive by putting them in sweatshops or brothels to clothe or pleasure the rich puke up what little food they've eaten.
It's a sad but true fact of human society that the strong will exploit those less so.
The fact that we can ignore this unpleasant facet of our nature in rich countries is because we have enough economic strength to do so; those on the bottom cannot because they're reminded of it every second of their lives.
If you've worked in India you'll have seen the poor striving to be rich or at least richer; are they wrong to want greater strength to order their lives?
Hifi has a heirarchy of quality, not always related to price, humanity has a heirarchy of strength not always related to wealth, but both have heirarchies because that's the way things are.
Expenditure in the USA is seen as success, until recently in the UK it was seen as bombast, but in either case money spent is money recycled; the most selfish use of money is to store it in a vault, unused and inherently worthless.
Spend spend spend if you have it; if you haven't, be as content with what you do have as you can - but in either case, don't try and pass off personal views as philosophical truths.
It didn't turn out well for Hitler, Joe McCarthy or Derek Livingstone to name but three...
What a great post, both funny and profound in equal measure.
Who is Derek Livingstone?
Sorry, it was a composite of Derek Hatton, loony left leader of Sheffield City Council who ended up being prosecuted for financial fraud while in office(his chequered past is available via UK news archives) and Ken Livingstone, now Mayor of London, who reinvented himself from a hard-left leader of the Greater London Council into a soft-left broadcaster, author and now scourge of New Labour - interesting...
I think that you are still a few sandwiches short of a picnic. Derek Hatton was 'deputy' leader of Liverpool City Council wasn't he?
Whoops, you're right - it was my Midland-centric brain taking over there for a minute.
DS, I've been tellin' my wife for years now that I'm not obsessed. But, thanks to you, I can look her straight in the eye & say:"Honey, a monk showed me that it was religiously sanctioned for me to have a 2 channel system that is equal in value to 42.8% of annual income, and we've still got some economy to stimulate before we're through with this one."
There's only one question left, DS: is that before or after tax annual income?
The little voices told me that whereof I do not know, I should not speak. .
dasd
I think people get too politically (or religiously) charged or something. There is a member here whose political opinions are diametrically opposite to mine, but at the end, no problem...I think we have a case of "The Mouse that Roared"... Except you may have also created the "Mouse"...
Too bad. Your audio system most-closely resembled one of mine... (The "B" system.)
If you think this is bad, check out the newsgroup- rec.audio.opinion...
One final comment- Most of the hate in this world is seeded by envy...
Actually, I mis-stated something. Sean H's system is the one similar to my "B" system...
Life is definitely a spiritual journey for me. I have researched all the major religions(christianity, budhism, hindu, wicca, druid, daoism, etc) and have yet to find anything that agrees with me.You sound very Taoist in your actions but you never mentioned anything about Taoism in your post. I mean no offense by this but you also seem to be looking for attention. Why did you even post this here? Do you care about what the people here think and feel about you? If so, then you are a slave to those opinions just as you were once a slave to your belongings that you gave away.
I'd say you owe Suzy a big apology before you go.
nt
Personally I think the declining quality of the postings and the atitude of the obnoxious overpaid is becoming too annoying.
It's a shame that I can't see another 2 channel centred forum that is as well supported [or as well organised]. Thank you to those who run the forum superbly, and to anyone who has posted intelligent advice. Good luck to all the idiots blowing up valuable kit on the Tweakers Asylum - next time read a technical book first. I may follow the Rocky Road on occasion as it seems the best bunch left.toodle pip
Graham C
how do u think some of the worlds best designers have learnt? discovery is a lot more powerfull then observationmark
> > and the atitude of the obnoxious overpaid is becoming too annoying> >You really think that overpaid, obnoxious people with an attitude, are worse then those that say "toodle pip"? C'mon, quit kidding around.
great. I've learned a lot there, and the atmosphere is more fun. More adventurous and less contentuous (sp). Talk about the music, that's why we are here.Ubiquitous Skittercat
nt
nt
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/music/rock/bbs.html
Go in peace and enjoy the music in your own way. It is tempting to "tap a shoulder" just to let someone know that they are a jerk. I take what you say and hear you, life is too short to get too worked up anything, let alone the opinions on an anonymous chat board on the internet.
Moderation!?!?!!?!?!WHAT was moderate about those FAR LEFTIST ramblings?
Don't make this person's obvious problems a political thing by going perjorative and calling him "FAR LEFTIST". This isn't a political forum and it would be a mistake to start taking shots as if it were.Besides that, I don't think he falls into the classical definition of a Leftist or liberal. I'm no shrink, but it sounds like he has deep seeded emotional problems that need to be addressed... and that's not right or left.
Ubiquitous Skittercat
I think MOST libs have serious emotional issues that need to be addressed. . . heheB
Whoa, hold on. Only far right wing war mongers made the word liberal bad. Just because Dancing Sea drowned by Kundalini
Actually,Everyone on this site is taking this CRAP too seriously! And most here don't take their hobby/addiction seriously enough!!!!
I agree that this site has gone downhill b/c of pretentious people who believe I don't deserve answers to my question b/c I don't have a $10,000 system. It really sucks to see not only the attitudes of people here, but also the CLOSED-MINDEDNESS among them.
So, we all agree that the forum has gone downhill. ONLY we can bring it back up to where it SHOULD be. And you know who you are. . .
B
This is not a left or right issue. I won't shove Rush Limbaugh in your face either. The far right is far scarier than the far left. You have stepped over the line.
You guys are so gay! I am over the line b/c i say this guy is an extreme leftist, and leftisits have issues!?So, I AM OVER THE LINE? hehehe Look at yourselves. .
What kind of name is Hantra?
Jeff
In 905, a year of the hare, fifth of the decade, the King of Hongsawadi resolved that, "On a previous occasion we led our army swiftly to Ayutthaya with only thirty thousand men and intruded up to the outskirts of the city, where we encamped in the Municipality of Lumphli, without anyone coming out to give us battle. Our men, however, were few and would not have managed the matter handily. This time, if we take a force ten times as large, I think we will take Ayutthaya."The fort they attacked in that year was Fort Hantra in Ayutthaya.
B
Please explain.www.paragraph175.org
fdsf
...in some way or another, but don't change. However, could you amend your monicker to "Archie Bunker"? Please...Ubiquitous Skittercat
You know I am really suprised that Archie Bunker is not already taken! I was a Meathead for awhile at another forum...
-best regards,
Rich
and a real smartass at others. It runs in my family. . . But I mean well.Hehehe
B
In just one day this guy has ruined a 25 year hobby for me. I'll never listen to my system, or maybe any other system again, without pangs of guilt and self flagellation.Yeah, right.
guess i missed something
s
Despite all your supposed spiritual awakening you missed the part about being judgemental. What in the world gives you the right to look at one small detail of someones economic life and based on that alone judge them wasteful, and self-centered. You have no ideas about the work,donations,physical suffering of this person. Perhaps Suzy has given away triple that amount. Perhaps she is a quadrapeligic and has no pleasure left outside her music. Perhaps she is just as self-centered as you judged her. You don't actually have a clue.You sir are not spiritual in your actions here.
Steve
Ahh such profound nonsense. sounds like the discusions about cables!!!
My only advice is: once you hit 30 years of age or so, find a nice quiet job with great benefits. Then at least when your 60 you won't still be livin' in the street.
I haven't read your post below, but frankly, you sound like a real nutjob. I love that you don't like to read books, find most monks and spiritual advisors arrogant, and yet drop such meaningless phrases as 'daily spontaneous kundalini activity' - the people who actually practice these religions might find your appropriation of them a little disturbing. I don't think I've ever read such a vapid and empty declaration of 'spirituality.'Long live Joey Ramone.
.
This guy should have been living in Soviet Russia. Then he would have known what real problems are.
I was not going to bring this up myself. He is so damn proud of living on $7000 a year... that puts him in perhaps 98 percentile of world population. Folks live on $100 a year.That lazy bum should have finished his education and start earning $60k per year, then he could donate that extra $53k a year - think of what that money would do for the needy... Instead he is pompous about NOT earning that money...
nt
nt
I just read John's post below, and my stomach is churning a bit. Mostly because of his arrogance and presumptuousness (though admittedly some of the counter-arguments made me a bit nauseated too).Here is my take on this. I know plenty of people who are materialistic and selfish. Some are quite wealthy and others are quite poor, but they only spend money on their own gratification and nothing else, whether it's things, food, alcohol, or drugs. That is bad in my opinion. Greed for greed's sake is NOT good and does not drive our economy. I also know plenty of people who are materialistic, to an extent, but not selfish. Some are also quite wealthy and others quite poor. They work hard and they share their time and their wealth with others, including family, friends and charities.
It makes no sense whatsoever to categorically declare that $50,000 is too much for a stereo (though in my gut I share some sympathy with that as a knee jerk reaction). What should be relevant is whether the owner of that stereo is generous to other people or is greedy and selfish. I believe that it is incorrect to infer that the owner of a $50,000 stereo is greedy, self-indulgent, or whatever. That owner might give twice that amount, or even half that amount, or a fifth of that amount, to charity each year. That owner might provide community service to his town or church or a non-profit group.
Now, turning to John's post above, it is one of the most frightfully self-absorbed naratives I have ever read. Does this guy think of anyone but himself? He seems very selfish and self-centered. Someone truly spiritual would not be so insulting and judgmental.
Uhg. Depressing.
***That owner might give twice that amount, or even half that amount, or a fifth of that amount, to charity each year. That owner might provide community service to his town or church or a non-profit group.That owner might also be burning midnight oil running his business, keeping few folks employed in process.
Simply fixating on that guy's stereo cost is to completely ignore his worth to the society.
But I think we are already beating a dead horse. John's attacks were simply severely misguided and show lack of true insight. I didn't bother to read all of them, but I would not be surprised if they were simply some teenager's prank.
***That owner might also be burning midnight oil running his business, keeping few folks employed in process.Right you are. Providing jobs contributes even more to society than charitable giving in many ways. Audio companies (like drug companies, car companies, etc.) help drive the economy and provide wealth for society.
I found your post (the $50K system) to be quite productive in reexamining my expenditures on my own system. (In the 4 years or so of the audio hobby) Everything I've bought, kept, and continue to use adds up to about $3600. In addition, there's an extra $1700 in equipment that I don't use. Now, I'd love to be able to sell that extra stuff but it is all stuff that I built and it has far more sentimental value. There are times where I've felt that I've spent too much time and effort but most of that guilt is washed away every time I sit down for a listen. My system has become something I enjoy listening to music with and I wouldn't trade any of the experience I've had with it away. Perhaps the experience Suzy has with own system is far more valuable than $50K?The respondents to your original post do have a point though. It's not as severe, but what you did was similar to tapping a stranger on the shoulder and saying "Excuse me sir, but I think you are a goddamn moron." It may be prefaced with nice langauge but the idea expressed is no less offensive.
Tom §.
nt
Didn't think so. Your negativity is starting to impress me. It must be hard to be so negative and nihilistic.
JJ
It's interesting that sharing a philosophy of economic moderation would draw such venum!Let's see....a few of your "philosophical" statements:
...there is something utterly perverse/sick about having a $50K stereo. It smacks of an utter lack of either social conscience or responsibility
The aroma of greed and indulgence is almost putrid.
No judgements given, just a statement of a spiritual fact.
On one hand her excessuve lifestyle creates poverty and economic injustices.
I've pointed out the folly in certain behavior, that is all.
I guess you can call that "sharing a philosophy" if you want. I'd call it arrogant and condescending. There is something putrid here, alright, and it's not a $50k audio system.
Farewell Audio Asylum...
Buh-bye.
Damm, I just want better bass from my speakers. I feel so awful.:]
Hi,Gosh, I only have a $10,000 system. My new system sounds a ton better than my old $1000 system and brings me a lot of enjoyment and pleasure. I know that reaching "spiritual enlightenment" is supposed to be a lot better than base pleasures, - but isn't there pleasure in "spiritual enlightenment?"
I don't know if I'll buy a $50,000 system. (I do want to upgrade to an $18,000 system, - I think that it's worth it). If I ever hear as dramatic a difference as I hear between a $10,000 and $18,000 system, - and I can afford it, - I'd buy the $50,000 system. Now that he's off this system, - he can go on to the Porsche board and go after them.
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