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Ok, I have a system that I use for audio only.. It's got a receiver (Yamaha) and a CD Player (Pioneer) and Speakers with no subwoofer (Mission)... I'm plugging my receiver and cd player which each have a plug (therefore two plugs total) in which I plug them both into a wall. (One on top and one in the bottom one... which fills that wall outlet.Ok, I've heard in the past a rumor that if I was to ADD a component to my stereo and wanted to use a power bar (that holds 6 electrical outlets instead of 2) to plug 3 or 4 components into that power bar which is plug into the wall... I've heard the rumor that using a power bar or other adapter to do this I am going to lose sound quality/power etc.. which will reduce the quality (sound, power) overall out of my 3 or 4 components plugged into the power bar is this true ?
If I was to use an extension cord to plug my 3rd component into another electric wall outlet and the 4th component into a DIFFERENT extension cord to that same wall outlet but either above or below into... This way I'm using each component (if there are 4) in a separate electric wall outlet which if the rumor is true will not degrade my system.
I really would like for my system to plug 4 components into a power bar with absolutely no loss of quality at all.
Thanks folks
Follow Ups:
Anyone into basic AC juice will understand that most home service (in USA) has a three wire setup: green 120V neutral red 120V so red with green gives 240V and if one outlet is of one side of power and the other is 'the other' then a condition of possible 240V stray voltage is going to be there and is a real danger (but rare) to some equipment.
IF you are going to use two different wall outlets: check the voltages and run a check between the two HOT sides with a simple voltmeter (even the cheapest $8 will suffice) to see if they add up the 240V If they DO add up to 240V then I suggest NOT using that pair of outlets to run your equipment. It "may" not hurt anything right off... but you will soon discover diode failure and other power supply problems appearing.
Keeping components of a system on a single 120V leg has to do with minimizing noise, not risk of stray voltage as far as I am aware. The U.S. three wire system is self-balancing. The neutral wire is grounded both at the home's service entrance and the utility company transformer and this stabilizes voltage on both hot legs. The neutrals of all branch circuits, regardless of 120V leg are always at virtual ground potential. Only 240V devices connected across the two 120V legs (sans neutral and its grounding) are exposed to/subject to 240V potential. The only time a risk is posed to 120V devices operating on opposite legs is in the case of a "common neutral" circuit, where two circuits on opposite 120V legs share a single common neutral wire. Just about a week ago I posted about this type of circuit, how it works and when and why its used. If the (normally grounded) neutral wire should become loose, then the devices operating on the two above-described circuits on opposite legs will be exposed to 240V and be damaged or destroyed because the neutral wire is then [accidentally] eliminated. Also, there is an error in the color scheme you associate with "a home service three-wire setup." The color green is used for ground, never for a hot/120v side as you describe. Standard colors are black/black or black/red for hot and white or grey for neutral. In cases where you have multiple hots that need to be identified separately, colors such as brown and blue may also serve as hot.
I run everything except my sub through a power conditioner. If you ever end up running an external amplifier, plug that directly into the wall. Everything else seems to benefit greatly from clean power. Make sure your receiver is plugged into the high current outlet and your digital transports (cd player, dvd, etc.) into the highest filtration outlets. This is not necessarily how they are labeled on the more inexpensive conditioners like Monster Power HTS-xxxx (not knocking them at all -- you can spend literally THOUSANDS on high end conditioners or power plants). Just pay attention to the level of filtration, etc. and experiment to see where each component sounds better.If you are handy with a soldering iron and electronics, there is even a DIY conditioner recipe that can be found here that is supposed to be quite good.
Good power cords also help considerably (if you're brave enough to crack open your components and replace the stock ones). I hardwired a Belden 19364 / Hubbel 5266 cord into my Onkyo and after it broke in for about a week made a TREMENDOUS improvement. Amazing transient response and much quieter noise floor.
Like many of these improvements, they may be very subtle at first (or may even sound worse until they have broken in). Try it for a week and then go back to the way it was before and the improvement will be generally pretty obvious.
What about the sound quality of my components and other factors (such as power) if they were run through a 6 electrical outlet power bar that is fairly cheap say under $30 as compared to running them separately from the regular wall outlet. I could run my receiver right into the wall say on the top one then have the power bar plugged into the bottom one with my CD Player, Tape Deck, Turntable going into the power bar.
Be wary of the claims made for power cords. I have yet to see any scientific/technical proof of these "improvements". Me and many other people believe the differences are from the "placebo effect": one thinks they are going to hear something different, so they do. And that "break-in" thing: I have never, EVER heard of metals changing their composition/electrical characteristics because of current flowing through them for a certain length of time. To me, this sounds like a manufacturer's way of taking advantage of someone's imagination, or trying to boost sagging sales with something that doesn't need that pesky "factual proof" stuff.Using cheap power strips MIGHT cause problems because of those inexpensive surge components they use-the best way to find out is to contact the maker of your audio equipment and see what they think.
Spend your money on a better cartridge or speakers to get a real improvement in your system's sound.Expect to read some really nasty responses to this.
Peace out.
Some years ago a dealer wanted to show me the major improvement in sound caused by using a new power cord.
I was politely saying no, do not waste my time. But he insísted, and as he was an importantant dealer for my products, well I accepted to listen to a track on a CD, and then letting him change the power cord, and listen to the same track again.Having a B.Sc.E.E degree I knew that nothing would happen, and he was just victim of the placebo effect and a "snakeoil" cable distributor.
So my brain was trying hard to ignore the message from my ears, I was hearing a major improvemnt of the sound.
But as the truth is more important to me than my pride, I had to admit to the dealer, that I heard this improvement he was raving madly about.
I left the shop, and spent 6 months trying to figure out what was going on.
When the power has traveled 20.000 meter through standard cheap cables and connectors and fuses from the power plant to the shop, why did the last 1 meter cable matter?
One day it hit me hard, it does not make sense because I am asking the wrong question.
the right question is: Why does the first 1 meter matter?
And the answer comes easy: Because the source of the problem is inside the power amplifier, it is not 20.000 meter away.
The power amplifier generates a lot of noise from the rectifier, and
the current in the power cord is very distorted.So the power cord is an antenna, radiating noise to all other components and interconnects.
So a shielded power cord reduce the radiation, and different connectors and cable designs affect the high frequency signals.Today all this is standard stuff, which you are required by law to measure to get EMC/CE approval in Europe, and there is lots of laboratories that measure this every day.
So I have learned to listen and consider carefully the next strange idea.
about ayear ago there was an article in stereophile, I believe it was "The ultimate cable upgrade". Tests were run on new home wiring at various intervals and the measured resistance of the wire actually changed over time.Changes are there, whether you here them is another matter.
Hello waVeman,If you can understand that from the most sensitive MC pre-pre amp, to the kilowatt per channel power amp, all we are doing in this hobby is
LISTENING TO POWER SUPPLIES.Why does it take such an enormous stretch of the imagination and logic to accept that even a modest length of cabling in the final few metres of power
supplies may have a beneficial effect on the power supplies we listen to ?You must agree that we have a limited number of parameters with which me can meausure electronic phenomena, and we may not ever develop ones
which will reflect effects which audiophiles experience every day.Furthermore, the behaviour of electrons is in itself a complex subject, and perhaps the materials and architecture in a humble power chord on the
behaviour of these electrons behaving like fields,particles or waves can in fact produce an effect which can be measured by the human ear.See, that wasn't so nasty ?
Regards,
John, who loves listening to his power supply being altered to reproduce the sounds of people making music.
About 6 months ago, I probably would have agreed with you.After much experimentation, about all I can say is listen for yourself. Go ahead and try it. Change your stock power cord, listen and let it break in for a week, then go back. The difference will more likely than not in my experience be fairly obvious.
There is no need to spend huge amounts of $$$ on power cords to convince yourself one way or the other. Build up a Crump power cord. It'll cost you about $20-25 for a Volex 17604 (Allied part #626-3509 $10), a Hubbell 5266-X (I used the Leviton 5266-C from my local Home Depot ($4.50), and A Schurter 4300.0603 IEC (Allied part #509-1215 $7). Trow out the screw on the IEC and use silver solder to fasten the wires. Build two so you can do an A/B comparison between a fresh one and one that has broken in for a few days.
As to break in, there will probably be no way of measuring any electrical differences with any kind of test equipment. I have a large assortment of oscilloscopes, DMMs, Frequency counters, etc. I haven't found any measurable difference before or after break in, BUT I CAN MOST DEFINATELY HEAR IT.
Placebo effect? Possibly. I highly doubt it, though. A new cord sounds like sh*t. Substantially worse than the stock cord. One that has been in use for a few weeks sounds wonderful.
Other effects can be explained fairly easily. A larger conductor can carry a larger current. Most easily heard though transient recovery. The current simply flows better, allowing the capacitors in the amplifier to recharge faster.
Why do different metals and alloys sound better than others? Fairly subjective, but I believe it has to do with conductivity. Copper has a warmer sound than silver, for instance...
Jon Risch, Bob Crump, or John Curl know a heck of a lot more about this than I do and could go into some real specifics.
THE BOTTOM LINE: Try it for yourself and LISTEN before poo-pooing it as so much hocus-pocus. If you don't hear a difference, then you have more of a leg to stand on.
I'm not familiar with the Van Evers strips that claud recommends and therefore have no opinion regarding them.I would definitely NOT use a cheap hardware store surge suppressor designed for computers. The sound quality will go WAY downhill with one of those. Not enough current capacity, introduces noise, etc.
The cheapest I would go (as far as what I am familiar with) is the Monster HTS-1000.
Of course the most dramatic example (I was a complete newbie at the time and to my untrained ears...) is when I was shopping for an AV receiver and my wife and I were in the local high end audio store. We were just talking to the owner and messing around with both what was in our price range and some of the better equipment (Nakamichi AV-10 / Dynaudio Audience 40's vs. Levinson amp / Dynaudio Contour 1.3 SE's with the same digital source). He had the Nak plugged into the wall (and the Levinson as it should be) and just on a whim, plugged the Nak into a $2000 Transparent PowerBank Ultra Extended. Amazing. The Nak (again to my newbie ears) sounded within a hair as good as the $12000 Levinson amp. Made even a $2000 power conditioner seem interesting...
So, to some extent you get what you pay for -- but not necessarily. That's what this forum is all about. Just use something designed for audio equipment and not computers. You will not be happy with the results.
By all means if you are into tinkering, try a better power cord! They take about a week to break in, but the results are not subtle.
That's what I've should have mentioned the $20-30 power bars for COMPUTERS.. That's what I was planning on using in order to plug 4 components into it. I didn't realize that sound quality went way down by using those..How would one use the ones that specifically are used for audio (the power bars) cause it's hard to find them in a $30 range isn't it ? Cause I can't afford to lay out over $200 for just a power supply.
I think the Monster conditioners start around $50-60 for minimal filtering. At least they are designed for audio. Check your local Circuit City/Good Guys/Best Buy. Look on ebay for new or used ones (usually half price). Unfortunately, I usually only see the $200 and up models (but for half of that...).
If you want an inexpensive but good sounding powerstrip , check out the VanEvers Companion for $30 . It has a removable powercord so if you wanted to experiment with cords, it's easy to do system wide. For $150, VanEvers has a Super Companion that is a power conditioner too. That's what I use. VanEvers has a website, check it out.
Hey Cliff,Come hang with us Cable Crazies for awhile. We'll have you replacing the cables in your components, replacing the wall receptical and maybe even help you with your question ;-)
After doing all the above, I'd make my own "power bar" with a good shielded 14/3 cable and an outlet box. Power bars with indicator lights just add noise to everything.
If you're not up to playing with wire, get yourself one of those 6 outlet adapters that replace the stock cover plate. They will hold 6 small or 4 beefy plugs.
On the other hand, if you live outside North America you may not be able to get the adapter. Just come over the Cable Asylum. We'll get you fixed up.
G-Man
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