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Has anyone here replaced the clock in their CD player.? I am looking at a Trichord Clock 3 or the LC Audio LClock XO...I am running a Rotel RCD 965BX Limited Edition and want to improve the sound.. I am also looking at replacing the OP Amps as well.. LC sells upgrades for these as well..
Thanks
Milez
Follow Ups:
I have upgraded Sony (SCD-XB940) and Marantz ( CD-63SE KI) with the LClock XO hyperkit and can tell you only one thing... BUY NOW!Extremly "bang for the buck" upgrade. I also used the analog upgrade "Zapfilter mk2" which I also strongly recommend.
The difference with only clock installed was very big and with Zapfilter almost as big again.I´m sure AD825 modules are good but the Zapfilter is GOOD!
Good luck!
/Peter
Usually reclocking should give better resolution etc. and will work
on most players; although the level of improvement isn't predictable. Have used the same clock module in Parasound CDP ( very succesfull transformation) and on Denon 1650 AR ( failure, excessive reverbation and - too soft? don't know the reason, may be other circuit part tuned to fight the harshness from original clock jitter, observed also change of tonality from different wires/wire placement from clock module to PCB in Denon).
Hi,the 965 was the first player I modified. It will respond well to clocking, and I remember replacing the bit-clock with the master clock with good results.
Get rid of those 5534s as fast as you can! Any of the usually mentioned (here) op-amps from BB or AD will do well. I first tried the BB OPA604s, and liked their warm tone. Not the most detailed though. The AD825s should be fine.
Fit as many Sanyo Os-Cons around the DAC, op-amps and filter as you can.
Thanks.. I am really surprised that so many manufacturers use such cheap Op Amps.. I found the 5534's for $0.90 on line.. I know the lower end makers are trying to cut cost.. but this seems like a stupid way to do it..I notice the AD825's are available in a few different itterations.. any suggestions as to which is best/easiest to install.? (or are these two criteria mutually exclusive?)
Milez
Go for the single op-amps in a DIL package.You can get the internal DAC on the 965 sounding pretty good if you give it enough attention. If you choose to go this route, it would be a good idea to get a schematic for the Rotel.
nt
nt
Yes I have a couple of them (LC´s 825 modules), but it was stated that they were DIL opamps by the other poster./Peter
You are right, the AD825s are SMD only. However, the original query was in the context of the LC Audio parts, so I replied within the same context.How do you like your 825s anyway? I've not tried them.
Haven´t used them yet, their collecting dust :-)However. I have tried the LC sidewinder preamp which uses AD825 with relay att. and class a discrete output buffers, very good sound.
I use a passive LC att. (10k) and the sidewinder was just a little bit warmer and rounder/softer, otherwise almost the same sound. I prefer the passive because of slightly better transparance.
/Peter
I have found in the past that clocking Sony and Marantz players produced a better sound and was worthwhile. It gave a better sense of timing and increased resolution. However this seemed to dramatically reduce the life of the players which I put down to possible extra work for the servos in the machines. If you have an external DAC I found that the Theta TLC produced the same result without having to mess with the players.
Hello folks,
I have a Sony DVP S560D that I use as a transport for my EAD DSP 7000 III & Theta DS Pro Gen Va with 24/96 upgrade.Would the TLC, or Monarchy DIP, perform worse, same, or better than an internal change such as the LC Audio LClock XO or Guido Tent's product & why? Would a combo of internal & external (i.e. TLC and Guido Tent's product) make a material improvement to whatever the first recommendation is?
Hi protege of herbe,
I have a hard time trying to understand what you mean. Do you mean by clocking replacing the crystal oscillator by a better one or do you mean bringing the clock from the CDP to the DAC or vice versa?? In any case I absolutely don't see why this will reduce the life of the player. Why would this create extra work for the servo's?
Basically there are three servo's in a CDP; one for focus; keeping the laser in focus. One for tracking; keeping the laserbeam on the track and one for the carriage; shifting slowly the whole laser from the center of the disc to the outher edge. The latter servo is a lowpassed signal from the tracking. If you put on a very scratchy disc that is not flat too, the servo's have to work hard but how reclocking comes in the play.....?Anyway I would like to draw attention to a very simple scheme called asynchronous reclocking.
You don't have to make a extra connection from the CDP to the DAC for the clock signal.
It is simply done with 74AC74 D-type flip-flops and I did not invent it. All the outputs from the CS8412 are reclocked in the D-flip-flop. with a 45.158 MHz low jitter clock. I found the higher the reclockingfrequency the better, more analog the sound is. Ryohei Kusunoki http://www.sakurasystems.com appears to use a 50 MHz clock. I will go to 100 MHz or even 125 MHz but first have to build a clock with such a high frequency.
I just finished the 45 MHz clock {schematic available on request by sending me a email} as this will also come in handy for Sony players. In fact I used the crystal from my Sony.
While others are struggling with extra PLL's 74HC4046, FIFO's etc. this scheme only needs a clock and a D-flipflop. If you can get the 47AC175 you only need one of this.
There appears to be not much concensus which signals to reclock, Ryohei appears only to reclock the latch while in a article in the Japanese MJ Magazine all three signals are reclocked except the DATA.
Credits go to Bob Fitz. and Barend who already in June 2000 saw the benefits of reclocking and Bob noticed that the clock does not need to be synchronous.
http://audioasylum.com/audio/digital/messages/3970.html
Aha Bob, in rereading your post I see why they don't reclock the DATA; it makes no sense. Below is the link to the DIYaudio.com forum where a schematic is found and how to connect the 45 MHz or higher clock.(It is quite unlogical posted in the Pass Labs forum). In the future I will post more details there.
Please note that my results are obtained with a low jitter KWAK-CLOCK in the transport, CS8412, Wildmonkeysects loopfilter and non oversampling AD1865 in the KWAK-DAC.
ELSO
Hi All,
I am sorry this is a little confusing as the schematic on the DIYAudioforum is using the clock from the CDP transported by a separate cable to the DAC and it uses the Japanese IC's. I referred to it because it was a nice and clear picture and my idea is a important simplification and improvement of the original idea.
I don't use the clock of the CDP for the reclocking but a independent , stand alone, clock. This also means there is no need for the VHCU04. The two inverters are omitted in the schematic. The D-type flip-flops are just ordinary 74AC74's. And you don't have to make a extra connection from the CDP to the DAC!
You do need the stand alone clock of say 45 MHz. This is called the KWAK-OVERTONEclock and is directly connected to point CK in the schematic. In the schematic that I will mail to all who asked for it I will give a complete picture af all these circuit elements. From drizzling Holland,
ELSO
Thanks.. I don't have a external DAC hooked up to it, (yet) for a couple of reasons, one of which is the 965BX only has an optical out, and I have heard from too many people that this will croak the signal going to the DAC.. and I am still upgrading my speakers and interconnects so money is tight.. Any suggestions for inexpensive DAC's out there..???I looked at the Theta TCL, looks VERY promising, for the money..
PB
dear all,The improvement (when improving oscillator quality wrt jitter) that can be obtained depends on :
- quality of old oscillator
- quality of new oscillator
- power supply (noise)
- sensitivity of DAC chip for clock / data jitter
- implementationBest results are obtained when directly feeding the DAC clock input and reclocking all signals that enter the DAC chip.
in addition the SPDIF output needs to be reclocked when the player is used as a drive.
Needless to mention our DAC page with usefull information, and most among you know that I sell "high-end" oscillators (2,5 ps) at low end prices.
enjoy reclocking
=
Guido
Hi,While I have still not managed to try Guido's Osc/Reclocker, it appears certainly the best "value for money" option and Guido is one of the few people whose word "it is good" I take serious, knowing the history of that Osc to way back many years before they became available for sale.
I hope to have a direct comparison between LC Clock and Guidos Clock & Reclocker available eventually, but I first have to fix the Transport that blew up during modding or just buy another one.... I might just throw them all into my DVD Player, but there the Re-clocker function won't be of use....
Ciao T
hi guido, i am building a cd-player - using the phillips cd pro2-drive
going via I2s directly into two (2) tda 1541a 1s in parallel.
i would like to use a high quality master-clock
between the drive and the 1541's
but don't know how!!!
(btw it'a non-oversampling-thing)
if you have some good advice it will most welcome, thanks.
cheers,
troels
dear Troels,The clock at the DAC will be master, and fed back from the DAC to the drive. That drive will then generate I2S signals which are sent to the DAC. Use reclocking at these signals......
Guido
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