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I struggled to decide whether to post this in the Cables asylum or here, but since I'm looking for advice concerning some specific components, I thought I'd try my luck here first...
I've been bitten by the "new generation [reasonably priced] DAC" curiosity bug, and so accordingly, have just ordered a Schiit Bifrost (with USB input option). I'll be testing it in both my main music system and with my laptop computer's "new and improved" 2.1 relatively portable speaker system, and will then decide where it would be best utilized (or, if I love it in both applications, I may have to get another).
I'm actually quite happy with the analog output of my CD player (Virtue Audio Piano M1, with Philips TDA 1543 DAC), but still, I'm curious. If it doesn't turn out to be an appreciable improvement for my main system, I've ordered the unit with the optional USB input as well, so that I could use it with my computer (the assumption here being that no matter what, running a digital signal out of the computer through the outboard DAC will "naturally" represent an improvement in sound over the 3.5mm analog output of the computer's "onboard" sound).
So then - on to my questions concerning the cables I'll need to collect...
My CD Player offers both coaxial and optical digital outputs. Considering the specific components in question (Virtue Audio Piano M1 and Schiit Bifrost), I'd like to know of your opinions regarding my best cable options for good sound - let's say with a budget of less than $100 for the cable (new or used).
Also, if I decide to use this new DAC primarily with my computer rather than with the main system, could you recommend a good USB cable for the purpose? Also, even though the Schiit USB input is "2.0", would there be any problem with me using the USB 3.0 port of my computer for the output? (the two 2.0 ports are already being used for other things that would truly be a waste of 3.0's supposed benefits).
Thanks!
By the way - I've been curious about both the Bifrost and the Peachtree DAC-iT, but looking into the future, the "modular upgrade" option of the Bifrost seemed like a nice idea, so I went with that one for the moment.
Follow Ups:
The designer told me yesterday the Toslink sounds better than the USB.
YVMV
Des
Laptop usb out to the Bifrost, I understand; that's my only option or use a converter. But why use the usb out from the SB Touch? I have not` heard anyone say it sounds better than SPDIF. If you wanted to use a HRT Streamer OK, but if you have a coax in to your dac, why not use it?
Evidently the Toslink mini 3.5mm Mac end out to Toslink in Bifrost is superior to USB.
According to the Chief Nerd there.
I'm Mac not sure re PC.
Des
I have found that ANYTHING on the USB bus will compromise the sound aside from the DAC. It is not a Schiit thing, but a USB thing.
Having said that - I have found that Audioquest Carbon for USB is great. Audioquest Colombia works a treat as well. I know - more than the DAC, etc. but that's what I use
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"
Instead of paying more for a USB cable than I did for my DAC, I'm most likely going to get a second Bifrost! (one for the computer system, and one for the main music system) :)
I did pay $80 for a 1.5 meter DH Labs Silver Sonic USB digital cable, and though it may not contain quite as much pixie dust as some others, I'm hoping it will transmit ones and zeros to the DAC with at least a modicum of aplomb. I don't expect my computer speaker system to compete with my main music system. Still, even with just the analog output, it's sounding pretty decent (especially for "computer speakers"). If the addition of the DAC will improve upon the sound I already have, which I expect it will, I'll be happy enough without having to fret over that last bit of juice I may or may not be able to squeeze from the rock with a much more expensive USB cable.
I've been using my Bifrost in my main system since I received it back in November. It's main use is in connection with my Logitech Squeezebox Touch, which streams music from my computer, internet radio, Pandora, and my present favorite, MOG. I have a good CD player and have felt no need to use an outside DAC. In reality, I spend most of my time listening to vinyl, followed by MOG. As I mentioned earlier, I just use a coaxial cable. The only time I used the USB was just trying it out when I first got the DAC. I prefer to keep my laptop in another room.
Did you know that you can now use the USB connection with the Touch? There is an applet available now which should work fine with the Bifrost. It also enables up to 192 over the S/PDIF as well.
Just another option.
John S.
Didn't know that. Thanks.
I'm only into about hour 3 of listening to my new Bifrost, but my initial impression is good. So far, I'm just listening on the main system (from CDP to Bifrost, then into preamp). I have two coaxial cables to play with at the moment: a 1.5 meter Belden 1694A cable with Canare RCA terminations (from Blue Jeans Cable), and a 1.5 meter "home brew" cable, made from Canare L-4CFB 75 ohm digital cable, with Canare RCA terminations (from my friend Rob Fritz, of Audio Art Cables). Thus far, I've just been using the Blue Jeans cable. I'll get serious about comparing the cables once the DAC itself has some time to settle in (I'm told this can take 100+ hours).
The pre-play "muting relay" clicks are something to get used to, but if beautiful music is to follow, I'll put up with it. :)
Overall, it seems like a very well built unit, and I look forward to its sound "blossoming" over the next 100 hours or so.
You may find it responds to good SPDIF cables and really good interconnects - but it is a great DAC! Enjoy!
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"
I'm so pleased with this Bifrost (still many hours of "break in" to go, supposedly), I ordered a second one, which is due to arrive tomorrow! :)
This first one has the USB input option, so it will be used in the laptop computer system (but until the new one arrives, I'm still enjoying this in the main system). The new one will come without the USB input, and will be for the main system.
"By the way - I've been curious about both the Bifrost and the Peachtree DAC-iT, but looking into the future, the "modular upgrade" option of the Bifrost seemed like a nice idea, so I went with that one for the moment."
This might be a bit off topic but Audioquest (of all companies :^)) is introducing a DAC in mid-June, that plugs directly into a USB port.
I prefered the sound from my Bifrost with the Toslink connection (compared to USB).
With my computer, I only have the choice of USB. My CDP offers both coaxial and optical digital outputs, so I suppose I'll discover my preference between those two (so far, I only have coax and USB cables on their way).
Though the direct comparison wouldn't apply to my situation, would you describe the differences you heard between Toslink and USB? Which specific Toslink cable would you recommend if I might like to compare it to my coax cable?
The Bifrost was just shipped today (USPS Priority, so it should be here very soon! :)). If it makes a wonderful difference for both my main and computer systems, I'll purchase another (second one would be for main system, so could do without the USB input I've had included on this one).
A) PC (gateway netbook) to Bifrost using a generic USB cable, slightly better than totally cheap, included for free with EMU 0202.
B) PC USB to Audinst HUD-MX1 -> optical -> Bifrost
Result: no difference big enough for me to hear or care about.
Yes, I know this isn't optimal, everybody says "PC -> HiFace -> coax -> Bifrost".
I posted up a detailed, long term review of the Bifrost (including the difference I heard between USB and Toslink) over on HiOnHifi.com. It might help you to decide on whether to go with USB or optical.
I don't have an optical output on my laptop. Just USB. Therefore, I'll be unable to make a direct comparison--or choice--between the two.
As I also mentioned in my previous post, on my main system, I do have a choice between coaxial and optical. Most of what I've read seems to lean towards the coaxial, given this particular choice. Do you have an opinion on this?
Finally, just in case I do get curious about comparing the coaxial vs. optical outputs on my CDP, is there a particular Toslink cable you would recommend?
Get an HiFace.... convert that USB to SPDIF/COAX. You'll likely be able to use your rca-type SPDIF cable in other places. The USB cable is limiting. Kimber makes a nice, but not crazy priced SPDIF cable.
Borrow, or rent a decent USB cable later to compare to the converter, - if the USB cable directly to the Schiit sounds better, then you can sell the HiFace, (lots of people want them), and keep the USB cable.
Eliminate expensive cables.....
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
I was doing preliminary research for taking the digital out from my TV (only has an optical connection), to a econo DAC, then to a Zvox speaker.
The top of the list - just based on gut reaction and price - was the DH Labs. The DAC on the list is the Peachtree DaciT
Since there is such a huge market of used cables, I always shop used first. However, used optical cables are a bit rare.
I have been a happy owner of a Bifrost since November. I happened upon it while I was looking at their headphone amps at RMAF and was impressed by their design philosophy and credentials, the price and the made in USA aspect, so I bought both. I use the Bifrost mostly with coaxial cable, custom made for me by a friend. My USB cable is by DH labs. Both sound good to me and DH is certainly within your budget. I believe USB 3.0 was designed to be compatible with USB 2.0, so you should have no problems using your computer. I'm sure you will be pleased with your Bifrost. Schiit products have been a most pleasant audio discovery for me.
I am using Wireworld Starlight 6 usb and coaxial cable with my Wyred daC. It sounds heavenly and is very reasonably priced.
I throw my windows open wide and call to you across the sky.
I'm looking (listening) forward to what this DAC will do! :)
Just got my Bifrost this week and right out of the box it sounds amazing. Head and shoulders above my HRT Streamer I. You'll love it on your computer. Many folks say the USB cable is not that important as long as you get a reasonably good one and it is fairly short (under 5 feet.) I use an Audioquest USB, and I'd just go up the line to what you want to spend. I'm interested in how you like it in your main system. I lkie mine so much already, I'm going to try it in my main rig and buy another one if it sounds as good as I think it will.
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