 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
89.204.154.226
Hello, folks,
i am going to update my system and therefore searching for a modern budget DAC with XLR-outputs. So far, i've used an Abrahamsen A-DAC which is quite good at its price point but also has its limitations. For example, if Schiit had provided its Bifrost with XLR-outputs, i definitely would have given it a try.
Looking forward to your replies
Hazel
Follow Ups:
The Mytek at $1500 and the Sonore/eXD DAC at $1195. Both do PCM and DSD very well. I own the Mytek (and the Meitner) and am demoing the eXD. Very nice under $2k DACs that do up to 24/192PCM and up to DSD128 (1 bit, 5.6mHZ).
One final thought:
Once you have secured your new DAC, the question will than become one of cables!
Best of luck with THAT particular can-o-worms. You will get minimal agreement on any part of cable. It is really the 'third rail' of hi-fidelity.
If you intend to compile a list of budget cables, it'll go 20 or 30 pages and drive you nuts.
Not that it means anything, but I use Mogami. Available at most Guitar stores, they are inexpensive and do a lot right. I used the 'Gold' series in 5 or 6 foot length. Keepers.
Too much is never enough
Hello, pictureguy,
many thanks for your care, but despite the fact, that i am already a little bit nuts ;), i am really not going to try to give an overview on all available DACs, loudspeakers, cables or whatsoever. I am just trying to find something, i feel comfortable with. And i thought that a list of DACs like mine would perhaps be a little bit useful, not only to me.
With best regards
Hazel
Attn: HAZEL.
What did you finally decide?
You did the MOST exhaustive search I could ever imagine and I'm curious as to how it turned out.
BTW, My DACMagic + is a player. Don't know if it's for you, but I'll keep it. I've got 3 of the 4 inputs populated. I even run 30' of USB from my Confuser. Maybe I'll spring for the BlueTooth Dongle one day.....but not soon.
Too much is never enough
Hello, pictureguy,
i haven't decided yet, still weighing the options. But i think that i do have two favorites, the Emotiva XDA-1 as a bargain buy (now selling for only 199$ new) and the Audiolab M-DAC Mk II as probably the last DAC i would buy in my whole life. Unfortunately, my sister, who will spend her summer holiday in Canada, refuses to carry these nice 4.5kg of Emotiva through her trip :((( and a quick search for the shipping costs to Germany yielded something around 200$. So, i am afraid that i will have to wait for an offer of an exhibition piece of the M-DAC for let me say 400€ or so unless you guys know a cheaper shipping service?!
With best regards
Hazel
PS.: For those of you knowing some cheaper shipping alternatives, the XDA-1 would measure 21.75" x 5.75" x 18" at 15.8 lbs boxed.
Just a thought...
Shipping won't be cheap to Germany, but most companies (including Emotiva) get cheap commercial rates. It would probably be worth asking the actual shipping charges from them - through their shipper - before giving up entirely :)
Any DACs in the domestic, USED market?
The Original DACMagic is out there....and HAS balanced outs. Other DACS must available used, as well.
Isn't the Emotiva on 'closeout'?
Too much is never enough
Abrahamsen - A-DAC / V6> > Audiolab - M-DAC (675-749€@Germany, ?$@USA)
• DAC
ESS Sabre32 Reference Audio DAC - ES9018
32Bit@84,672Mhz• Digital inputs
2 x 24Bit@192kHz coaxial
2 x 24Bit@96kHz Toslink optical
1 x 24Bit@96kHz USB• Digital outputs
1 x coaxial
1 x Toslink optical• Analog outputs
1 x RCA@2,25V (rms)
1 x XLR@4,50V (rms)• Power requirements
220-230V@50-60Hz
100-120V@50-60Hz• Links to reviews
http://www.whathifi.com/review/m-dac
Audio-gd - NFB17.2
Cambridge Audio - DAC Magic Plus
CEC Japan - DA53N
Emotiva - XDA-1
Lavry Engineering - DA10 / DA11 / DA2002
Mytek - Stereo192-DSD DAC
Onkyo - DAC-1000 (XLR-outputs?)
PS Audio - Digital Link III
Schiit - Gungnir
TEAC - UD-H01
W4S - DAC 2
Edits: 05/06/12 05/06/12
My DM+ arrived today and is already hooked up.
A little rough for maybe 15 or 20 minutes as the caps formed. I expect further improvements for the next 50 hours. But, right now, it is fine. I'm using the balanced outs w/Mogami Cables.
Very complete kit out of the box. It has a universal power supply and a series of adaptor plugs for near-worldwide use. The PAIR of instruction manuals come in a total of 8 languages. It also has some rubber feet to attach or use the provided 'shoe' for vertical mounting. I'll build a better base.
The only bit of cheapness is the vol knob, which doesn't belong. If I can get it off, I'll turn one out of wood....something exotic like Bubinga.
Hazel, with all due respect to your thoroughness, I'd jump in. By the time you get thru compiling what is a pretty exhaustive list, the MkII rev of everything will be out and you'll have to start over! With rare exception, I think you'd be satisfied with nearly any DAC on your current list.
Too much is never enough
nt
I'm not sure if I actually helped or not, or you are perhaps pulling my leg, but, at some point you've got to just DO IT.
For my digital camera, I waited 1 generation after I saw something I could live with, than I bought.
I'm very picky about my camera and buy pro gear.....
Likewise, I waited on the DM+. I didn't know it was coming, but once I saw it.....Bingo.
As a TOTAL aside, stuff is constantly being improved. Cars? Military stuff? Airplanes? But, at some point, the design is 'fixed' and produced. If you waited for 'perfection', you're cooked.
Stick a fork in 'em, he's DONE.
Too much is never enough
I agree and I was not 'pulling your leg'. Yours was a positive and helpful post after a dirge of petty and critical ones. Hazel has much to choose from
and development of new and better DACs is a moving target.
Well, i think it is time for a preliminary summary of the recommendations so far. I will add some technical specs, prices and links to reviews later.
Abrahamsen - A-DAC / V6
Audio-gd - NFB17.2
Cambridge Audio - DAC Magic Plus
CEC Japan - DA53N
Emotiva - XDA-1
Lavry Engineering - DA10 / DA11 / DA2002
Mytek - Stereo192-DSD DAC
Onkyo - DAC-1000 (XLR-outputs?)
PS Audio - Digital Link III
Schiit - Gungnir
TEAC - UD-H01
W4S - DAC 2
With best regards
Hazel
And the Audiolab M-DAC seems to be another very hot recommendation after its recent update!
$550 MSRP
Works well, great tonal balance. I have it matched to Naim and it works as well as the Schiit. It doesn't have the upper midrange forwardness of the Schiit -- is more neutral. Has a USB input that takes all the input frequencies from 44.1-192kHz. SPDIF and TOSLINK, too.
Perfect for that price level and does include a pair of XLR outputs. I have not tried them yet so I don't know how they compare to the RCA's they have, too.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"
Um ... not sure what you guys are going on about ... I just mentioned a $550 one with XLR ... er ...
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"
Okay, peace, mgnpuff,
and i would definitely consult you if i were interested in the best DAC money can buy ;). Although - in this case - i would probably consider building one by myself using superconductors :p...
Best regards
Hazel
Besides that, my recommendation to you was a $250.00 DAC, not the $10,000.00 DAC.
Oh, man, mgbpuff, you are completely right! :( - I had really mistaken you for 'Joe Murphy Jr.' and alike ones... Embarrassing... I really hope you will accept my apologies. I guess that i had just been too upset about this annoying high-end-snobbism and this dubious 'budget' discussion.
With best regards
Hazel
Hello all together,
i am sorry that my initial post has given raise to some discussion about the question 'what i meant by 'budget'?!'. But i, obviously mistakenly, assumed that it would be clear enough that i am searching for a DAC with XLR-outputs which represents something like 'the next 'reasonable' step' after my Abrahamsen A-DAC (~200$). And to make it even more precise, DACs for under 700$ are what i would call budget ones, DACs between 700$ and 2000$ are in my opinion standard high-end DACs and everything beyond should be state-of-the-art.
With best regards
Hazel
Zhaolu D2, now 'improved' in later versions 2.5 and 3 but no longer with XLR outputs.
Comparable sound quality @ the level of the original EE DAC. Usually available used well under $200.
nt
Hello, my audiophile friends,
many thanks for your replies so far, and the Emotiva XDA-1 has aroused my interest. Is here anyone who has listened to it in comparison to other DACs? For example a PS Audio Digital Link III?
With best regards
Hazel
PS.: The DcS Scarlatti as a budget DAC was surely a joke, wasnt it? =D
Since this is primarily a high-end audio gear site, - I always assume that "budget" means between $1000 and $2500 per component. Since the average system price is $20,000 here, - and the typical high-end per component price point is $1000, - then "budget" means between 1K and 2.5K
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
"Everyone has a different budget."
Wait a sec, is that really true? I thought, we would all have the same amount of money...
Anyway, i will google this "Everyone has a different budget"-DAC. Seems very promising with its redundant topology.
Hello together,
i just found another interesting DAC made by Audio-gd, the NFB-17.2 for 439$. It features a Dual-Wolfson-WM8741 converter stage fed by a Tenor-Interface-Chip. Has anyone listened to it already?
Best regards
Hazel
I know that "being funny" is a moving target: hopefully you have a big drawing board......
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
Edits: 05/04/12
Is it en vogue to choose a Moniker while performing a soul striptease? Strange people in here... :(
has nothing to do with my posts?
Your assumptions, are neither funny, accurate, or helpful.
Perhaps taking your own advice might be a better course?
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
I realize this may come off as rude, but there are numerous threads started every week re: a "budget" component and the majority of the thread starters never mention a $ amount. But if you look up the definition of the word "budget", you'll see that money, finances or financial restrictions are part of the definition. Using the word "budget" without attaching a $ amount leaves the door open for others to recommend gear that is well below your expectations or way beyond your financial means. It's like telling your doctor that you don't feel good. If you were a doctor, would you like to play 20 Questions with every patient that walked into the office?
For a good example of a "recommend" thread, read the thread above yours started by JoshT . Notice the information that he provides for the reader.
Nt
#1 you completely missed the point
#2 "nt" goes on the subject line, not in the message body
1-4 Your 4 posts here which make no attempt to answer the original poster's question, but belittles him/her for not constructing his/her question to your liking. I understand your point - everyone on the Asylum would have to understand after 4 repetitions. Why don't you try just muttering to yourself instead of all of us.
I too am looking for a DAC. Since you seem to be an expert on budgets, I am looking forward to your recommendation of one within my budget.
nt
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/pacific-microsonics-model-two-adc-dac
You could have entered your full Moniker, mgbpuffup...
I know I get puffed up at times. Sorry! It's the Italian in me, I fear. In fact my moniker stems from being nicknamed Puff due to just such tendencies in the past. But I can't seem to totally eliminate this undesirable trait - guess it's just me!
So maybe you aren't an expert after all.
By the way, one way you can add direct links -- instead of the annoying copy&paste stuff -- is by adding the web address to the Optional Link URL section of your comment.
nt
The Emotiva XDA-1 does not up convert the input rate, the PS Audio up converts everything (similar to the the Abrahamsen). Neither DAC has the latest in USB input capabilities, so if you want lossless 96 or 192K playback, you would need to use a USB to SDIF converter also. I notice that the Abrahamsen only has USB input, so if you are using the DAC in this manner, I would recommend something beyond any of these DACs - perhaps the W4S Dac2.
I agree - if you have the budget, the Wyred4Sound DAC-2 is a VERY nice sounding DAC (I have one) - and it has a nice USB implementation as well. (It's also built like a tank, and has a lot of nice features. It has a sort of retro look which you either love or hate, but the sound is definitely super. Well worth a look - or a listen.)
An interesting suggestion - which I know works on the XDA-1, and should work for any other DAC as well...
If you buy one of the original V-Link boxes (the original goes for about $100 now - if you can find it), it will give you 96/24 USB asynch audio - just plug it into the coax input. You can then set Windows to output at 96k and get your upsampling that way, and it sounds quite nice (with some versions of Windows, you don't even get a choice, as the V-Link seems to tell Windows that it ONLY supports 96k).
Another interesting DAC with advanced USB output is the Onkyo DAC-1000. It sells for approximately $1000.00.
both above would, by later Hazel posts, appear to be 'out of budget'....or rather...'exceed budget'.
Continues to make the DM+ look better every minute. for 1/2 the $$ of the W4S Dac2.
Too much is never enough
it always upsamples to 24b/384khz before the signal goes to the Wolfson DACs. Some purists don't like not being able to defeat the upsampling. But then it does do a good job (I have the Azure 850C with the earlier ATF implimentation). Before you beat me to it, the W4S DAC 2 Sabre chip also always upsamples to 24b/196khz before the DACs. And maybe one would have to look pretty hard to find a converter that gives the choice to upsample or not.
I had an 840c which I traded to buy the DM+. Not an upward move, perhaps, but certainly not a downgrade, either.
The problem with the 840c was it simply didn't like the digital output from my AirPort Express....at all. No matter file type, complexity or anything, it would periodically lose lock and emit a fingernail on chalkboard screech for a couple seconds. CA issued a software update which I was simply 'chicken' to install. I couldn't imagine the cost to 'unbrick' my expensive player.....
Also, the CA840c used the SAME transport as the REST of the CA line, from the 300 series UP. This does not make me feel good. I mean, the MTBF for the hi-end players transport is the SAME as the one that has a street price of what.....250$ or so? I'm not impressed.
I suspect the defeatable upsampling feature comes in at a higher price point, no?
Too much is never enough
Hello, folks,
only mentioned for some really distinguished people out here by the way... There really isn 't anything special in designing a good DAC. You only need a stable power supply, a high-quality transceiver chip, some good DACs and a nice pre-amplifier section; everything, preferrably, channel sperated; that 's it. No need for thousands of Dollars any more. The perfect DAC could be made for a maximum of 1000$. Period. But it has to sound exceptional, too, and that 's the main problem. The only thing we need is a company capable of looking beyond the specs without demanding 30.000$.
With best regards
Hazel
Have you looked into a Music Hall 25.3? has everything you are looking for. I rolled in a Jan Sylvania 6922 and it sounds great. Also makes for a decent headphone amp. Drives my 600ohm BeyerDyanmics nicely.
you make it sound somewhat more simple than it really is.....
The Devil, as usual, is in the details. I would suspect that a good implementation of a middle of the road chipset is better than a mediocre design using a top-line chipset.
That being said, it is probably easier to do today with such highly integrated chipsets available. Just reading over the Wolfson datasheet tells me quite a bit about just how many options you can use or NOT use when using a WM8740 chipset as say....the CA DACMagic +. They could have used a single chip, but chose the more difficult path of dual differential using a pair.
Read thru the attached link to the Wolfson WM8740 and see the options and though that went into this chipset. I have NO idea where in the line this chip falls or how it compares to others in the Wolfson line or other manufactuers stuff. Also, given the OTHER parts of the design from what would appear to be a simple capacitor or resistor choice to whose filters to use and of what type, and you can clearly see the issues.
It's all about choices and expected price point.
I would expect that a 'perfect DAC made for 1000$' to sell for 4x or 5x that price. Certainly not a budget component except to one wih pretty deep pockets.
If you meant SELL for 1000$, I would expect total manufacturing cost to be no more than 250$ in larger quantities. I'm sure the CA offering is near this level.
It is also true that as 'the state of the art' improves and the knowlege base grows, such designs DO get easier and better for less $$.
Too much is never enough
-
I had a similar situation and had 600$ max...which was fine, since the DACMagic+ was available.
2x inputs....AND USB, 1.1 and 2.0 along with a dongle input for BlueTooth.
Balanced outs with option to use level control, so all you'd need were powered speakers.
You may want to consider it....OR the now discontinued DACMagic (original version) which is available used for a lot less $$.
Too much is never enough
as it pertains to the EE Minimax DAC Plus, which I have Opamp rolled in the past. This time I rolled discrete Opamps and discovered a sensational way to match the DAC to any system; I call it the "Digital Toolkit", and I believe it would be well worth your time to read about it at Dagogo.com.
Just this morning I will make good on my promise in the article to install the discrete Opamps into the older EE DAC in my office. I have been "stuck" on this DAC in terms of writing for a while now. There is only one reason why; it's continued to offer efficacious upgrades to performance for a nominal cost. The discrete Opamps are more pricey, but well worth the difference over IC Opamps.
Perhaps the EE DAC Plus is now tapped out in terms of additional articles, but it has been a sweet ride! :) I'll continue to match different transports/players with it for more thrilling results. In my office I have a Cambridge Audio Azur 840C and Sonos. I had only been using the Sonos with the EE DAC, but now that the discrete Opamps are here you can bet I'll be using it over the 840C's internal DAC.
BTW, definitely use the AES/EBU link to any DAC, if it's provided. It uses the standard XLR connectors, and you can try a balanced/XLR cable.
I would normally put links to my articles, but in the past often they are removed when I do so. To find the article, called an "Audio Blast..." about the discrete Opamp rolling just go to the Dagogo.com website, click to enter, and you'll see it in the listing of recent articles.
The greatest impediment to advancing an audiophile system is the audiophile.
Can be used as a pre-amp if so desired.
Based on my brief listen to the Emotiva ERC-2 in my system which prompted my DAC search, I bought a Bifrost. I would venture to say that the Emotiva could have more or better bass and maybe highs, but I doubt that anything approaches the Schiit this year in midrange and overall musicality, realism and naturalness.
Read the man's post.
He? Man? I missed that part.
The implication was, depending on time frame, to consider waiting for this:
Without including a $ amount, you might get recommendations like this...
The Lavry DAC sounded very good at the recent New York Audio and AV show.
Schiit's got a new balanced DAC coming out this summer.
Jeff
"Decaf is for cowards."
Jack Kevorkian
Mytek
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
"subject to availability"
Do you know any person who actually has one of these? They appear to be in tight demand and stores backlogged.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Post a Followup:
| FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
