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Seeking a lucullan midrange that seduces you with its rich three dimensional presentation of vocalists; a deep, wide soundstage with velvety, rich, silent dark space between instruments that present themselves with golden tonality. Opulent but not lush as in the pejorative sense of the word that most audiophiles throw at tube equipment that is thick, heavy, bloated, sluggish and distorted like a very badly executed SET would be. No, I mean in the archaic definition as in luxurious, the finest and richest; if I am conveying my intent correctly.
To illustrate further, picture the scene; a German designed Teutonic performance of a Wagnerian opera; cold, hard, sterile, brittle, forceful, and unyielding. Have that in mind, good, now go 180 degrees in the opposite direction, picture a French cafe in the early summer evening, a small Jazz band is playing, a table just outside, a bottle of Bordeaux nearby, luxuriating in the warmth of the night air as the music is drifting around you with a delicate caress, a golden glow illuminates the scene. Simply relaxing in the opulence of the moment, that is the sonic signature.
As a thought experiment; if one were to take the classic California Audio Labs Tempest IISE put in a refined transport mechanism like the old Esoteric P2; a modern chip set oh, say eight differential pairs of Burr Brown 1794s and then straight to a vacuum tube output stage using NOS 6SN7s. Plus, a separate power supply chassis like the Tempest had with its 17 supplies, isolated and fully regulated, with an all vacuum tube voltage regulation stage to supply the tube output and use modern Teflon film caps and wire throughout with copper resistors, silver connectors, etc. Maybe that would get close?
Is there anything even remotely similar to that in the market past or present? Some might suggest the last CAL Alpha 24/96 dac and mod it but that only used a Cirrus/Crystal chip with mosfet drivers and a single 12AX7 as a cathode follower added on almost as an afterthought. There was the MF NuVista CDP but the nuvista tubes just don't have the same sonic signature as older tube types; being a little too sterile and “solid state-ish” at least for my tastes.
So, if anyone has any product suggestions please do but there is probably nothing out there like that anyway. Oh well, thank you in advance.
And, yes I was being completely serious here.
Follow Ups:
To put my reply in perspective, I used to love vinyl with my Koetsu Oynx and was a digital Luddite. CDs sounded harsh and generally very horrible.
Well it has taken over a decade and more dollars than I want to confess to, but I'm now finally satisfied with the superb sound I'm listening to via digital.
There are two equally good sources:
1. An Esoteric UX-1 LE modified by David Schulte of "The Upgrade Company"
2. A Sooloos system with the FLAC files processed by a Meridian MS600
Those signals to be fed one of two ways:
(i) -> 7.1 amp & speaker system (details via the link below)
(ii) -> balanced digital line -> Benchmark DAC1 (virtually rebuilt by Steve Nugent at Empirical Audio) -> Sennheiser HD800 headphones
These days I'm generally listening to 2, (ii) i.e. the Sooloos system with headphones. And yes, I used to hate headphones like most here do BUT the audio quality is so superb with clarity, ambiance, musicality .... that is just plain seductive. I've never enjoyed the music collection so much!
I can sit back in the armchair and over 8000 CDs are at beck and call via the Sooloos touch screen. I often let it roam through the collection (termed "SWIM" by Sooloos) so when it strikes an appealing piece the random mode is killed and that piece is listened to in its entirety. Alternatively I can search for a piece and even compare several different CDs of the same work - but to be honest have not done this often,
So that is my experience for what it is worth. And as an aside I wonder how good the new NuForce DAC9 is. Anyone tried it?
John
Having a lot of trouble configuring the remote to control the cat. Maybe play it classical music?
I don't no if a used machine is the wisest choice , digital players and particularly DACs have improved leaps and bounds the last two to three years .
"....digital players and particularly DACs have improved leaps and bounds the last two to three years ."
I could not disagree more....... I think the best digital source products came out during the 1990s........
Attending THE Show in Irvine, CA about a month ago, I did not hear any digital sources that made me think about upgrading to. (I did hear a few analog products that evoked such thought, but no digital products.)
I could not agree more.
Regards,
Joel
" Attending THE Show in Irvine Ca , about a month ago , I did not hear any digital sources that made me think about upgrading to " .
Todd , that may be true , but at shows the equipment is often new and hasn't had proper runin time , not to mention system synergy and room problems . Iv'e hear the Stereophile crew say many times that they don't put to much stock in what they hear at shows , show sound can be notoriously bad .
Iv'e owned four mid fi ( $3000 to $7000 ) players in the past fifteen years or so and each one was a considerable improvement over it's predecessor . The lessoning of digital edge or glare is most apparent . The three DAC's iv'e coupled to these spinners show big improvements in many area's too .
Lucky dog being close enough to attend such shows .
Regards Tim
I've never heard a Koetsu Rosewood..... (Except maybe unknowingly at an audio show.) But my choice would be the Don Allen-mod Philips 935 changer, with the latest (ferrite) upgrades.
I don't no if the A.R.C. Dac 8 is all the things you want but it's the closest thing I've heard to analog , with the fewest digital artifacts .
Either an upper Level Audio Note or a Zanden is my suggestion.
I have owned the Koetsu Rosewood and Black years ago when I still owned a turntable so I think I have some idea of what you're after.
I haven't heard a Cal Audio Alpha dac, but I briefly owned a Sigma and it was not at all satisfying. I have a Micromega Duo BS2 that had a much richer/lusher midrange than the Cal Audio.
A top of the line Audionote might do what you want. Also an upper line Cary player might also do it. Not sure what their current model numbers are.
Any dac you select will need a very good transport in order to deliver the sound you are looking for. Also, you will need to select cables that are revealing but not too analytical.
Any others?
"Seeking a lucullan midrange that seduces you with its rich three dimensional presentation of vocalists; a deep, wide soundstage with velvety, rich, silent dark space between instruments that present themselves with golden tonality."
I think you want an expensive scotch whiskey.
I was thinking very thick red velvet draperies
optimally proportioned triangles are our friends
I thought the 83% triangle was the norm now .
Audionote
Which one, or do you consier all of them to fall in this catagory?
Dave
Hi Dave,
I agree with Frihed89. Audionote's higher line models the the 3.1 and up sound a lot like the Koetsu rosewood signature. I owned a 2003 or 2004, Audionote 4.1X balanced DAC and Audionote CDT2 for 18 months. Over time I could not stand the sonic signature that it imparted on music.
Thank you for that answer. I take it you do not like the Koetsu!
Dave
I like the sound of vinyl and the Koetsu, but I made the switch to digital in the 1980's and have never really looked back : )
I stuck with vinyl in the 80's, I have been playing CD's since the 90's, but vinyl was always my primary music source. I have a new interest in CD's now that it is obsolete. Good music is showing up on the shelves at the trift stores for $1 a pop, and high quality players are also finding their way to the thrift stores. Always be a late adopter!
Dave
Just not that many tube DACs on the market.
I listen to an AN 4.1X Balanced DAC with either a Forsell Air Bearing CD transport or Esoteric P-0s (presently, the latter).
After testing the DAC valves on an Amplitrex and realizing they warranted replacement, I contacted Audio Note UK for recommendations. I would say their response was excellent :-)
Were you able to try different tubes in your 4.1X Balanced?
Regards,
Sam
I purchased my Audionote 4.1X balanced new and assumed that the factory tested the tubes and that they were in good condition. I did not try any different tubes. The bizarre circumstances in which I purchased the Audionote DAC from De Ja Vu Audio was not ideal. Subsequent listening sessions with a lot of the higher-end Audionote offerings revealed that that their house sound was not my cup of tea. I learned a somewhat expensive lesson.
This is the point at which, AN(UK) starts to use double C core transformers. It clearly sounds more analogue than the 2.1 Sig.
In general, it is wise to pair AN DACs with AN transports, meaning probably a CDT Three.
There is also a one box solution, the CD 4.1x, but it will not match the DAC 3.1 Balanced + CDT Three and there is hardly any room inside the 4.1x to upgrade much.
AN is pretty far out of the modern mainstream when it comes to DAC, especially with respect to jitter control on which many are focused. They use no special technology to control jitter, the argument being that the cure is worse than the disease.
In the end, though, if you have a very hi-end vinyl set-up and are addicted to the sound, it may be hard to find a digital cure at any price.
Good luck.
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"
nt.
I don't even know if I can hear jitter. The Tent labs clock is pretty widely used and well spoken of, but I don't know that I have ever heard a DAC or CDP with this installed. I can't and so won't argue the technical aspects of the debate over the AN approach. But the AN DACs seem to me as close to vinyl as I have heard.
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"
Some of the DIY non-oversampling NOS DACs have a sound similar to the OP request.
I think only the U grade chips are still available.
Some have said that the ESS Sabre 32 bit or Wolfson Sigma-Delta chips are finally getting close to the sound quality of the NOS dacs, maybe?
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