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Model: | DAC MKII |
Category: | DAC Processors |
Suggested Retail Price: | 3000 EUR |
Description: | DAC with master mode option |
Manufacturer URL: | LessLoss |
Review by Zozo on April 25, 2009 at 23:53:03 IP Address: 77.111.78.102 | Add Your Review for the DAC MKII |
There are two professional reviews (also available online) of the Lessloss DAC 2004, but strangely very few reviews from private users.
Before I bought the LL DAC 2004 I had an Accuphase DP-55V (2 years), an Accuphase DP-75V (4 years), a battery powered Altmann Attraction DAC with the Accuphase as a transport first, later with Theta Digital DaVid and then a Mac Mini. The Altmann DAC sounded very good, but its high frequency roll-off and somewhat compromised resolution made me look for something that would be as detailed as the Accuphase but sounded as smooth as the Altmann.
I found out about the Lessloss DAC when reading up on battery powered DACs. The Lessloss homepage is very thorough on everything you need to know, but it is likely that you will not have a chance to listen to it before buying. So I contacted half a dozen people on different forums who have this DAC and asked their opinion. They were all very positive about the DAC. A few sentences that they said: "the Less Loss combo sounded so close to my analog rig it was scary. No other transport/DAC combo has done this" "high frequency extension and delivery in particular are sublimely smooth, there is no edge, harshness to the sound at all. You will hear details and such on discs you are familiar with you thought were never there before, this appens to me almost every day!" Questions I still had Liudas at Lessloss answered within hours through e-mails.
The LL DAC has the sound I was looking for: dynamic but relaxed sound, details without ever being harsh or ”analytical”. With the Mac mini as transport (using an external firewire/spdif converter) I thought things could not get any better. It passed the level of Accuphase and Altmann, and because the MAC was the best transport I had tried, I thought I reached the limits. Liudas from Lessloss told me a number of times, that I really needed try the Lessloss DAC in master mode to hear what it was capable of. So after about 6 happy months with the Lessloss+MAC combination I borrowed two transports I could slave, a Logitech Transporter that has wordclock input and the CEC TL51X CD transport that Lessloss recommends. The Transporter slaved to the Lessloss DAC (and using the MAC) was not much better than the TC Electronic Konnekt 8 firewire/spdif converter I had been using, certainly not several thousand dollars better. However, the CEC transport slaved was clearly superior to the MAC. I bought the CEC transport.
In the past year or so I had the opportunity the A/B test the LL+CEC combo against other digital players.
Altmann Attraction DAC has the smoothness and dynamic range of the LL+CEC combo, but doesn’t have the resolution and high frequency extension.
The Accuphase DP-78 sounded more artificial (digital if you wish). SACDs on the Accuphase provided a better dynamic range, and maybe a touch more detail, but still sounded more artificial.
I took the Lessloss to a friend who has 47Labs Progression DAC (with a 47Labs transport), but in practice he only listens to vinyl. We listened to the Lessloss system first, and my friend said that he would not bother connecting the 47Labs system as that would not stand up against the Lessloss. (Since then he sold the 47Labs...) I also compared the LL+CEC to the latest Emm Labs one box CD plyayer which was a touch more authoritive in the bass, but the Lessloss sounded more musical and relaxing to me.
The Lessloss DAC + CEC combo sounds very good with the Lessloss digital and clock cables, and they are safe choice. Over the year I tried a number of other digital cables and there was only one that clearly suspassed the Lessloss digital cable, the Kondo KSL (for over twice the price of the LL). This is what I’m using now, and I don’t think I’ll touch the digital rig for some time to come.
The DAC has a few disadvantages. It sound pretty good in slave more, but you really out to get a CEC transport to listen to it in master mode. So don’t think of it as a stand alone DAC, rather a DAC-tranport combo if you want to get the best out of it. Another thing is the single digital input, so you can’t connect your DVD player, digital satellite, etc to it without unplugging the CD player first and put it back in slave mode. So in practice it is a CD-only DAC.
Zozo
Product Weakness: | only one input |
Product Strengths: | smooth sounding with good resolution |
Amplifier: | MC2 Audio MC1250 |
Preamplifier (or None if Integrated): | Acoustic Research LS26 |
Sources (CDP/Turntable): | Lessloss + CEC |
Speakers: | Proac Response D80 |
Cables/Interconnects: | Music timbre, Neotech NS-2000, Lessloss |
Music Used (Genre/Selections): | jazz, classical, acoustic guitar, vocal |
Room Comments/Treatments: | Shakti Hallograph |
Type of Audition/Review: | Product Owner |
The Accuphase players do not sound artificial!
"The Accuphase players do not sound artificial!"
Using live as a reference, I've never heard any digital source that I thought didn't sound "artificial".......
That 'cause you use toslink and won't upsample. My digital rivals vunyl, but I only do hirez and reject questionable downloads.
SACD is very more 'natural' and not as 'digital' as pcm.
Fred,
In the same vein that you deride Todd for Toslink, I say the same to you:
You will never have the best results you can unless you dedicate your machine to audio! Just like using toslink.
Get a backup disk and do the cmp2 OS mods. YOu already have most of the hardware ones but do the usb mod if you havent and dont use a wired mouse.
"My digital rivals vunyl, but I only do hirez and reject questionable downloads."
Glad you like it......
I've listened to sources/systems owned by people who've had such thought, and all I perceived was more of the same...... I've just never listened to any digital source that to me was *totally* devoid of artifacts in the way a live performance is...... Even with sources that have had claims to have been perceived that way.
one can enjoy digital music reproduction as long as one does not listen to analogue.
Truer words were never spoken.
You can listen to digital systems evolve and think, "we are making progress now". Then, in my case, I get my turntable back in service and I really want there to be equality, turntables are a pain in many ways, analogue is noisy, and yet when the music begins there is no doubt something very big is missing. The music envelopes you and fills your room not that I was getting "beamy" sound from the digital set-up but there is no comparison to what happens with the LP.
There is a strange tonal balance anomaly which has nothing to do with measured frequency response. There must be something going wrong dynamically. I know I am not saying anything that hasn't been said a thousand times.
Oy ve,
"one can enjoy digital music reproduction as long as one does not listen to analogue"
And how does he explain all those classical concert goers, who return from the concert hall how to listen to their favourite performers on ipods and digital radio. Analogue must be better than live then, isn't it?
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
No matter how fine the mince is (pun intended), there's a continuity and contiguity to the sound of analogue that simply 'makes sense'.
big j
"...only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms ."
in the most obvious ways of S/N ratio and dynamic range and overall definition. Yet good vinyl just has that magical ease to it that is not something I hear in a live performance. I just like it better than digital.
All true. I'm fully aware of the trendy prejudices I was peddling. Added to which I'm of the camp that believes the constant live music comparisons a simplistic, snobbish red-herring that doesn't truly reflect the full range of ways we experience music - certainly not mine. To wit, one of my favourite genres is the soundtrack filmscore. You see my instant dilemma, should I choose to indulge it.
These days, however, I'm happy to have any time for music at all - any way it comes.
big j
"...only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms ."
I attended a Laszlo Gardony (http://www.lgjazz.com/) concert. Two days later an opera, and tomorrow I'm going to a Jacques Loussier concert (I hope you won't need a link here...).
I know what Accuphase players sound like, I had them for 6 years or so. Lessloss+CEC sounded better to me and the two others present who are Accuphase owners.
Isn't it time you registered at least?
Better is subjective! I find the LessLoss to be a whole magnitude less precise then my best Accuphase players when comparing them to real sound.
Zozo is happy with the LessLoss, you're happy with the Accuphase..... I'm happy with the Prism DA-2...... Vive la difference!!!!
Hey George,
Better is subjective! I find the LessLoss to be a whole magnitude less precise then my best Accuphase players when comparing them to real sound.
LOL. This sounds pretty subjective to me.
Care to post some objective measurements you have comparing the accuphase to the Less Loss?
In absence of that please explain why your subjective judgment is somehow more valid than zozo's.
And why is yours with your Lynx and cMP?
Basically Accuphase sounds 'Japanese'; they have different perceptions which as just as valid as 'west coast' sound.
Hey Fred,
And why is yours with your Lynx and cMP?
For one I am not the one deriding a subjective judgment for being subjective WITH A SUBJECTIVE JUDGEMENT!!
I have no problems with subjective judgments.
that is interesting. can you develop?
If you listen to high end equipemnt, you can not only detect 'house' sound but also chracteristics from certain countries.
Go to Japan for a while, listen to hifi, go to public music events, and there is a tendency towards good dynamic range, low distortion, and for some, brightish, leaner sound. Also the Japanese home environment is very different due to the method of construction.
Good to know! I will pay attention next time
I visit my in-laws there.
Hey George,
If you get your head out of your Accuphase cheerleader skirt, you would see that the reviewer never said they sounded artificial.
The Accuphase gear only sounded artificial IN RELATION TO the Less loss/cec combo:
The Accuphase DP-78 sounded more artificial (digital if you wish). SACDs on the Accuphase provided a better dynamic range, and maybe a touch more detail, but still sounded more artificial
See. more artificial (than the less loss/ cec combo).
I know it is impossible for something to sound better than Accuphase so I wouldnt sweat it, this reviewer is OBVIOUSLY wrong. But I thought I should at least clarify what was said.
.
The worst thing in 1954 was the bikini; see the girl on the TV dressed in a bikini; she wouldn't think so, but she's dressed for the H-Bomb!
.
The worst thing in 1954 was the bikini; see the girl on the TV dressed in a bikini; she wouldn't think so, but she's dressed for the H-Bomb!
If you recall you recommended the TC Electronic Konnekt 8 to me a while back. Unfortunately I have still not pulled the trigger on it. My reason is that I have been enjoying this DAC in master mode for so long now with the CEC TL-51X that I still don't think a reasonably priced computer set-up can beat it. Liudas offered to sell me the LL USB converter that plugs into the digital input on the back of the DAC, but I haven't done that either.
I had the same idea with the Transporter, but according to Liudas the clock frequency in my DAC is 16.XXX and so any transport or device with a word clock input must have a clock with the same frequency for the DAC to operate in master mode. Some LL DACs have jumpers where you can change the clock frequency for the Word output, mine does not. Reason I bring this up is if the clock frequencies in your DAC and the Transporter were different, maybe you were not getting the best performance.
Still it is good to know that you see the benefits of running the combo so the DAC is in master mode, This is the best digital set-up I have heard, not that I have heard them all, but I've heard enough. It does come the closest to analog IMO.
Sure, I do remember exchanging e-mails on TC Electronic Konnekt 8, good to hear from you! That was before I tried the CEC transport, but I still believe that the Konnekt 8 is a stunning value (15 times less than the Lessloss DAC) if you want to set up a very good computer based system. It is also good as a firewire/spdif converter.
Since then I tried Mytec 8X192 Series AD/DA converter ($4100) which is much better of course. Unfortunatelly I had sold my Mac mini by then, so I used it on a Windows based system. Sounded close to the Lessloss but more "analytical" if that makes any sense. (In the meantime I also got tired of ripping, converting, and all the rest, so I gave up completely on computer audio.)
I have 2 clocks in my LL DAC and also wordclock output, so I have 6 bitclock frequencies and 4 wordclock frequencies I can choose from. I wasn't sure what I would slave in the end, that's why I ordered these options. I'm still thinking of buying an old and cheap CD player and slave it, just to compare it to the CEC. So, the Transporter was slaved properly. In fact I put the jumpers in the wrong position once and got 48kHz out. Everybody sounded 5 years old on the records...
I'm still thinking about the Konnekt 8 as a headphone based computer audio set up for the bedroom. Like you though I find ripping stuff a chore. I might instead do some down loading from Internet sites that have music I like.
Lucky for you that you have all those options on the LL DAC. I bought mine used so while I got a great deal money wise. only have the one option for word clock frequency.
Hi, this is Liudas (Louis) from LessLoss. Thanks for posing your impressions, guys!
Rest assured, the clock frequencies match up. We worked this out by email. Remember this is a SYNCHRONOUS slaving. That means there is no rounding. Trying to run Synchronous slaving with two different clocks is impossible. It wouldn't sound just less than perfect, it will sound like nothing, or white noise, or like a chain saw grinding its way through your favorite record collection (especially the one that's playing...).
I still am amazed at how difficult this all seems for people to grasp. It is actually very simple: Transporter uses only WordClock input. So, we give it the WordClock signal, which is 48 kHz or 96 kHz or 44.1 kHz or whatever the audio is. This frequency is arrived at by dividing the SuperClock frequency by a finite integer value.
If you use rounding, then you have bad sound. Asynchronous solutions give you worse digital (electronic-like) sound since they have rounding.
The 6 digital setups tell the story at this link.
So no native hi-res 88.2-96 kHz files can be played via Lessloss USB device, correct?
I was just wondering if there's some special tricks or clocking going on inside your USB-spdif device compared to other "run-of-the-mill" devices.
Also, do you have any future plans for asynchronous USB inputs or Networked asynchronous DAC, much like the new Ayre asynch USB DAC or PS Audio PerfectWave DAC?
Along with the transport and cable comparisons.
Cogito Ergo Credo
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