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In Reply to: RE: I would respectfully differ on that point.... posted by viridian on December 02, 2020 at 08:00:53
The JVC formula is no longer used. It was too toxic. So that is not a reasonable comparison. Every label in the business has to choose from the available pressing plants and every pressing plant will turn out some bad pressings. There were even some bad pressings from Japan from the JVC plant. I know, I have a few. That is the nature of the beast.
I don't read the Hoffman threads as they are littered with idiots with unreasonable beliefs and expectations. ALL vinyl has some degree of noise. It is inherent in the medium. All pressing plants turn out some defective pressings. Defects range from innocuous to attrocious. One can not discern those variations in defects or their relative frequency based on anecdotes on the Steve Hoffman forums. Anecdotes from OCD fanboys are not particularly informitive.They lack objective criteria and are simply unreliable.
None of the labels are immune to the reality of pressing defects. Granted at the price of ERC pressings one could argue that no record should slip past a visual inspection. But a record can pass a visual inspection and still be noisier than normal. Likewise a given pressing can look bad and play with less than normal noise levels.
I would agree that the first copy of that LP in the video should not have ever made it past the visual inspection. Shit happens.Even at a premium price But it was replaced free of charge no questions asked.
You can find examples of the same things from any and every other audiophile label out there. And one really can't rely on OCD fanboy anecdotes as an objective filter for assessing the relative incidences coming from these different labels. Quite the opposite actually.
Follow Ups:
"it was replaced free of charge no questions asked"
Did you watch the entire video? The $450 LP was replaced...however...the second one had BUBBLES in the vinyl. It was replaced free of charge TWICE and actually had worse (IMO) defects.
Dale Clark
www.arcpictures.com
I have no problem with anyone having reasonable expectations when it comes to objective quality control on a product that comes at such a premium. I did not take issue with the complaints about QC. I took issue with the speculation on the tape source used to master the LP. Watching the video again I have to take further issue with his speculation. He actually spins a small conspiracy theory about ERC not using the original master tape. He also speculates that reviewers are deliberately giving ERC fake positive reviews so they can secretly sell the "crap" product and make illegitimate income on the side. The review is filled with assertions of fact that are blatently false and clearly unresearched. His opinions on the quality of the jacket shows his lack of research on and understanding of the goals of ERC. Given the guy's viewership on Youtube there does come a reasonable expectation (something he talks about quite a bit) of getting objective facts right. I would say Mike was extremely irresponsible in posting this content. IMO it is inexcusable.Now as to *your* opinion on the subjective relative pressing qualities of the two records in the video (the record was only replaced once according to the video). What are you basing those opinions on? Are you Mike? If not did you personally get to play both discs and compare the objective noise levels on both discs? Not saying you are right or wrong, just asking what you are basing that particular opinion on?
Edits: 12/04/20
I meant that the replacement was defective AS WELL. not that Mike got 2 replacements. I probably should have worded it better.
Dale Clark
www.arcpictures.com
he simply didn't like it. He says there were micro scratches from it moving around during shipping. Micro scratches that would not show on the video. That is not a defect. He didn't like the sound quality. An opinion he gets to have. He makes no mention of even playing the second LP.
Like I said in my first post, preferences are inarguable. The original jacket was damaged. That was the reason for the replacement. I'd be curious to know how it got so severely bent.The packaging does not have enough room for that degree of bending. And that severe bend was not a factory defect either. It was damage. Really bad damage.
We have no idea how either LP sounded as far as noise is concerned. It was never specifically addressed in the video. So I take it you did not get to personally listen to either copy?
Hopefully, he gets a 3rd copy as a replacement and gives an update. I got the opinion Mike was not crazy about the "sound" (his personal opinion) of the album Quality wise, I believe he is referring to the micro scratches which should not even be visible on a MoFi one Step let alone this high of a price. I do give mike some credibility.....Mike will pay for a high dollar album (he's got plenty, plus expensive Analogue Tape R2R Project releases. Plus, MMJ stopped selling thru dealers (including Mike's) and he still holds them in the highest regard.
We'll see if Mike gets a new version.
Dale Clark
www.arcpictures.com
nothing wrong with inaudible micro scratches from the record coming in and out of the sleeve or even from the record moving around in the sleeve during shipping. If he doesn't like the sound quality of the first record it won't get any better with replacements.
"The JVC formula is no longer used. It was too toxic."
Should I be worried?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
and they are illegally using the old formula. Not much to worry about once the vinyl is mixed and solidifies
....but it's fine to denigrate the posters on another forum. Thanks for the education, LOL.
Perhaps you don't understand the difference between criticism and denegration. My criticism of the broad base of posters at SHF is not personal denegration. It is an observation and no individual is singled out.
Edits: 12/02/20
Not to mention, ..."idiots with unreasonable beliefs and expectations."All one has to say is, "Those folks don't have credibility with me", or " I disagree with their views". But that would be less demeaning.
As with any post, our choice of words reveals more about the poster than those posted about.
The definition below:
Edits: 12/02/20 12/02/20
I believe I said it once and I did not name any names. It is also much more specific so it makes my position more clear. If anyone actually took offense to it then maybe it hit too close to home. Sometimes nothing is more offensive than criticism that is spot on. By the way, OCD is an actual diagnosable mental condition. I have a very close friend who has dealt with it for years. He is not ashamed of it and is quite open about the condition and it's manifestations. It's not a derogatory term. Fanboy? Seriously? I often refer to myself as a fanboy of numerous interests. Should I be offended by me? The only "derogatory" term I used was "idiots." Again, it's an observation. Should I have been more verbose and less politically incorrect and refered to them as "mentally challenged" or "persons of bellow average intelligence"? Are you genuinely concerned that I may have hurt the feelings of members of the Steve Hoffman Forums by not using more sensitive terminology?
Nt
OCD which is short for obsessive compulsive disorder is a medical term. Do a google search and see for yourself. You will find all kinds of links to various medical websites on the subject of OCD/obsessice compulsive disorder. There is a whole article on it on the Mayo Clinic Website. Now do the same google search on the word "retard" and see if you can find anything at the Mayo clinic on "retards" or any other medical websites. Did I really have to explain that to you? Do I need to cite the specific form of logical fallacy you are using here? Just in case look up false equivalence. Unless you actually do find an article on "retards" at the Mayo clinic webpage.
Edits: 12/02/20
Nt
Talk about one's posts saying more about themselves. You fit the bill quite well. I was talking about the nature of record manufacturing and basic responsibilities in posting public reviews that could affect peoples' real live businesses. You go off on this bizarro tangent trying to make it look like I am calling people "retards." Check yourself bro. You are way out of line.
It seems like your anger management problems are getting in the way, clouding the discussion. Why not try keeping it on topic without disparaging others? Incapable? Unwilling?We agree to disagree on the subjective point of what an acceptable amount of defects are in, what appear to be, the most expensive new records for sale. I appreciate your position of being an apologist for ERC, I simply have a differing perspective.
Edits: 12/03/20 12/03/20
Let me guess, you are one of them?
Nt
thank you for demonstrating what I am talking about on SHF
I'm trying to figure out which one is Oscar and which one is Felix
*yeesh*
never mind, carry on
I am much more like Oscar than Felix. :-D
Nt
hope you see the difference.
Edits: 12/02/20
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