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In Reply to: RE: Dunno. I haven't read Ludwig's views regarding the formats you mentioned. posted by Isaak J. Garvey on May 29, 2017 at 13:24:23
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...nuthin'...but they all failed spectacularly in the mainstream market place.
SACD/DSD: 1 bit, MEGA Hz sampling rates, great sound
DVD-A: nothing but a container for 24 bit PCM
Surround: Not a format, but more channels, still PCM
about the "mainstream market place" why?
profit from mainstream sales subsidizes production of the product we (at the margin buyers) want to buy.
NOT owned by the majors, depend on mainstream sales how?
Naxos
2L
Academy of Ancient Music
Alba
Analekta
Arco Diva
Atlanta Symphony Orchestra
Bachstiftung
Berliner Philharmoniker
BR Klassik
Cantaloupe
Capriccio
Carpe Diem
CD Accord
Cedille Records
Cincinatti SO
Classic Archive
Collegium
Columna Musica
Concerto Classics
Contrastes Records
Cypres
Da Capo
Dallas SO
Delos
Divine Art
Divox
Dorian/Sono Luminus
Dynamic
Enchiriadis
Enja
Farao Classics
Fleur de Son
Fugue State Films
G7 Catelopera
Genuin
GPR Records
Gramola
Hänssler Classic
ICA Classics
John Williams
La Scala
Linn
Lipkind
Loft
LPO
Marco Polo
MDG
MDR
Medici Masters
Melodiya
Michael Nyman
Music & Art
Naxos
Nightingale
Nimbus Records
Obsculta-Music
OehmsClassics
Ondine
Orchid
Other Minds
Our Recording
Outhere
Paladino
Parma
Pentatone
Phoenix
ProfilProphone
Proprius
Quiet Please
Raumklang
RCO live
Rondeau
RPO
Sanctuary/ASV
Sanctus Recordings
Saphir
Seattle Symphony Media
Siba Records
SIMAX
Solo Musica
Steinway
Tactus
Tafelmusik
Telos
Timpani
Toccata
Tudor
Two Pianists
Verso
WPH - Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
Yarlung Records
Accentus music
Arthaus/TDK
C Major
Christopher Nupen
Electric Picture
EuroArts
ICA Classics
Opera Sydney
Opus Arte
Seventh Art
Teatro Real
Did I miss any?
The Atlanta Symphony Orchestra was, well an orchestra.
Yes, they do sell their recordings on the ASO website where you can buy all nine of them, but that hardly constitutes being a "classical label".
You'll never find them attempting to sell proprietary stuff like MQA.
How's this?
Naxos
2L
Academy of Ancient Music
Alba
Analekta
Arco Diva
Atlanta Symphony Orchestra (Ignore per inmate E-Stat) :-)
Bachstiftung
Berliner Philharmoniker
BR Klassik
Cantaloupe
Capriccio
Carpe Diem
CD Accord
Cedille Records
Cincinatti SO
Classic Archive
Collegium
Columna Musica
Concerto Classics
Contrastes Records
Cypres
Da Capo
Dallas SO
Delos
Divine Art
Divox
Dorian/Sono Luminus
Dynamic
Enchiriadis
Enja
Farao Classics
Fleur de Son
Fugue State Films
G7 Catelopera
Genuin
GPR Records
Gramola
Hänssler Classic
ICA Classics
John Williams
La Scala
Linn
Lipkind
Loft
LPO
Marco Polo
MDG
MDR
Medici Masters
Melodiya
Michael Nyman
Music & Art
Naxos
Nightingale
Nimbus Records
Obsculta-Music
OehmsClassics
Ondine
Orchid
Other Minds
Our Recording
Outhere
Paladino
Parma
Pentatone
Phoenix
ProfilProphone
Proprius
Quiet Please
Raumklang
RCO live
Rondeau
RPO
Sanctuary/ASV
Sanctus Recordings
Saphir
Seattle Symphony Media
Siba Records
SIMAX
Solo Musica
Steinway
Tactus
Tafelmusik
Telos
Timpani
Toccata
Tudor
Two Pianists
Verso
WPH - Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
Yarlung Records
Accentus music
Arthaus/TDK
C Major
Christopher Nupen
Electric Picture
EuroArts
ICA Classics
Opera Sydney
Opus Arte
Seventh Art
Teatro Real
More better?
And the above list is ONLY the independent labels currently associated with NAXOS, there are a ton more not on the list (BIS, Chandos, Channel Classics, Etc.)
Take out all the symphony orchestras (or philharmonics) who peddle their own stuff as well.
John Williams is a "classical recording label"? Most of what you find on Michael Nyman's website is well...Michael Nyman content.
Where exactly did you source your list?
But do keep in mind that the list was ONLY independent labels that have some deal with NAXOS.
There are MANY independent classical and jazz labels, both small and large, which do not have a deal with NAXOS, like Hyperion and Harmonia Mundi, but at the risk of including a list of those and inadvertently including one that's owned by a 'major' label, I have chosen to stop while I am ahead. :-)
Because without mainstream acceptance you get no significant amount of music to buy. A few thousand titles is not much to choose from and no reason to accept a new format no matter how many audiophiles tout its superiority.
I listen to music not formats.
Not only are a few thousand titles not enough, but when introducing a new, supposedly superior format, the MOST POPULAR recorded artists, and the most familiar recordings must be prioritized and optimized for that new format.
and no reason to accept a new format no matter how many audiophiles tout its superiority."
A few thousand titles is more than enough for me to 'accept a new format' if it's a few thousand titles I have an interest in hearing. Both DVD-A and SACD are now an available format on most decent sounding silver disk spinners, so what's the gripe? If you don't like the format, don't buy it.
Likely have a few thousand LPs and a few thousand CDs but not more than 100 or so SACDs and maybe 15-20 DVD-A, so a few thousand new titles in a new format is fine for me IF I AM INTERESTED IN THE MUSIC.
And it's fine with me if I'm not.
I have no intention of buying an MQA enabled DAC, or even one which is DSD capable. I'm happy with my two Audio-GD PCM1704 based multibit DACs.
But just because I'm an old stick-in-the-mud listening to ancient technology doesn't mean others can't or shouldn't enjoy new formats.
Other than an odd DG or DECCA release, most of the music I listen to is NOT from main-stream labels anyway.
I have no idea how NAXOS or BIS or Chandos or Channel Classics stays in business, but somehow they do.
That said, if Beyoncé wants to release her latest recording on SACD, I think that's great. But I won't be buying it or downloading the DSD file.
Cool no problem here.
But that was not your question. You asked why would anyone(audiophiles) care about the mainstream acceptance or something along that line. I just gave you an answer extremely limited choice of music. That is a BIG reason why we should care. Just because some audiophiles take the jump and find enough titles to satisfy their whim does not make a success.
Formats come and go for one reason lack of mainstream acceptance. If the mainstream does not accept a format it will not survive. It is just that simple.
Doubtful MQA will survive. Its' claims are dubious at best, we have heard it all before, and the mainstream could not care less about MQA.
Some say it died at birth, that would be 1999 (last century), but new SACDs are issued every day.
ImportCD lists over 5,000 SACDs in their current catalog with 50+ issued in the last few weeks or available for pre-order.
Not all great, but I can't keep up with all of them and I'm just interested in classical.
How has the SACD managed to survive this long without 'mainstream' acceptance?
Yes, downloads will obsolete the spinning silver disk in all of its forms, including DVD and BluRay, eventually.
In the mean time Marantz just introduced a $7000 SACD player. OK, not for the 'mainstream' market, but still, not to bad for DOA technology.
5,000+ SACD titles? That is a joke. Basically nothing.
SACD is a niche audiophile product that was/is a complete and total failure. HDCD, DVD-A, DSD are also flops.
Only audiophiles would claim failures like this are a success. That does not mean a company cannot make money satisfying the niche audiophile market, SACD as an example, but that is a not a success.
When 1,000,000+ titles are available one can consider it a success. MP3 downloads are a smashing success. Why? Mainstream acceptance. Of course audiophiles will be running for the hills because of sound quality but there is a HUGE amount of music available for MP3 download.
Chicken and egg kind of situation. Audiophiles will ohh and ahh over the latest thing but sit on the fence waiting for mainstream acceptance waiting for a large amount of available music. Of course it never happens because the mainstream could not care less about audiophile desires or silly new formats. And then the stubborn audiophile will never admit is was a flop because SACD.com just released 20 new titles this year!
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