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In Reply to: RE: Several problems digital has that analog seems to not have: posted by J. Phelan on April 17, 2017 at 16:46:32
More reading. Best part -a few paragraphs below '3 answers', (starts with) 'playing a vinyl 'LP'.Apparently, LP struggles with content over 10 kHz !!
Edits: 04/17/17 04/17/17Follow Ups:
"Apparently, LP struggles with content over 10 kHz !!"
Yes, with a conical stylus.
You might want to look at the physics using a fine line stylus.
You seem have little understanding of the subject at hand.
Have a good day.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
The Dynavector 17D3 has a microridge stylus and short diamond cantilever and has a flat response to about 50Khz. The first resonanance is around 100Khz. That is probably the best example of a wide bandwidth cartridge that I know of. Many MCs have a resonance just below 20khz but not the Dynavector.
Analog master-engineers, what few remain, recommend a cut off at 15-16 kHz.
And the link I provided was in fact, physics. Have you read it ?
"Analog master-engineers, what few remain, recommend a cut off at 15-16 kHz."
Which ones? Certainy none of the top guys. Are you doing this on purpose? ya know, getting everything wrong? I am begining to wonder.....
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...uh, the link I provided. But then, LP seems to struggle (mechanically) with frequencies over 10 kHz (other link).If anyone here thinks I'm wrong, prove it. I provided links - now it's your turn...
Edits: 04/17/17
http://www.recordtech.com/prodsounds.htm
I provided you with a link to a you tube video showing the FR from a crappy turntable well above 20kHz (all the way out to 60kHz). Just imagine how much better a hi-end turntable and cartridge would be.
Did you view it?
We can go back and forth on this but you need to do some studying and try to understand the issues at hand.
You clearly have very little knowledge.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
I'd prefer a study or an expert's opinion.
If you tube is the best you can do, then *you* have very little knowledge.
First of all, I am an expert.
To find out what the FR of a LP is one needs to measure it.
That is what the guy in the you tube video is doing.
What part of the video did you not understand?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Tre':I respect you knowledge, I just thought a hard-paper would be better than you tube.
However, it's too confusing for the limits of LP. Search on chat rooms and you'll get all different answers -15, 18, 20 even 40 kHz. Then, is this musical content ? noise ? harmonics ? Can the stylus actually read signals that far up (without side effects) ?
The record-pressing site I linked was very clear: cut off at 16 kHz. Did you read this ?
The main concern here is overall sound quality: speed accuracy (belt LP gets an "F' here), inner-groove pressure -leading to distortion of our music, etc.
Edits: 04/18/17 04/18/17
Let's examine what you find in the link posted here.
" The high frequency response of vinyl depends on the cartridge. CD4 records contained frequencies up to 50 kHz, while some high-end turntable cartridges have frequency responses of 120 kHz while having flat frequency response over the audible band (e.g. 20 Hz to 15 kHz +/-0.3 dB).[5] In addition, frequencies of up to 122 kHz have been experimentally cut on LP records."
"Mechanically then, LPs cannot record much beyond 10 kHz without using a smaller-than-standard stylus. In fact the cutoff of frequencies recorded today is around 24 kHz ."
Note the qualification with this one. This refers to using a conical, not a multi-radial or Shibata stylus designed for higher frequency response.
Tre',
There's no sense in trying to debate a 'right fighter'. They'll dig themselves into a deeper and deeper hole in their futile attempts to prove themselves 'right'. Arguing with them is a fools errand. All it accomplishes is to provide them another platform for their madness. Put this guy on 'ignore' and you'll starve his never ending appetite for inane blather.
IOW - quit feeding the troll :-)
Cheers,
SB
-
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
If you prefer an expert opinion Ijust gave you one in another response. But speaking of expert opinions can you cite one actual cutting engineer who agrees with your assertions on the high frequency response of vinyl?
The (linked) vinyl-pressing website is one, Roger Sander's white paper is another. I trust Sanders because he's an industry veteran.The limit is dependent on many factors -it could be 15 to 25 kHz. The point is after 16 kHz, it's all noise and distortion. Let the mass-market listen to these -we're audiophiles, I thought.
Even though you're trying (hard) to prove I'm wrong, this is a minor issue. It's the sound quality of LP that matters. And it's doing TERRIBLE if we look at what classical labels use to record *and* what reviewers use for playback.
Edits: 04/18/17
Roger Sander's white paper is another...
You mean like his *interconnect test* ? :)
What actual real world records did he actually engineer? Kevin Gray, the mastering engineer I cited has a resume that is second to none. Did you read what he said about vinyl's frequency response?
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