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In discussing how to get the clarity and definition back, Robert E. Greene states:
"Odd ideas have arisen. First there was the really peculiar one that it had something to do with amplifiers, when in fact good amplifiers are all but perfect in the relevant frequency ranges."
So it's a really peculiar idea that we should be concerned about amplifiers? What was the purpose of all those amplifier reviews over the last many decades? I have a few problems with his statement.
First, it propagates the myth that amplifiers are perfect and that speakers are all that matter. This is a mass market notion that was especially popular during the "distortion wars". The specs on that amp are "so good, you can't hear it." With any luck, I WOULDN'T BE hearing an amp like that, ever.
The "all but perfect part" ignores the idea that smaller quantitative errors may be as qualitatively important to the listener as larger errors. It also assumes that the standard of measurements are adequate for describing sound and that quantitative notions of audibility have been updated with state of the art equipment. I cite measurements here, because subjective listening tells us that amplifiers are NOT perfect.
The part of his statement that says "within the relevant frequency ranges" is missing consideration of the time element in reproduced music. Because the ear is so sensitive to time delays, an amplifier might perform well on static tests within the 20-20kHz range, but be "slow." A faster, wide bandwidth amp is easily audibly superior to an amp which barely plods along for 20kHz. There is also the question of what constitutes relevant frequency ranges.
Being concerned about amplifier clarity is not a "particularly odd idea". It's a fundamental difference between universal mediocre sound and living, breathing, lifelike, electronic artifact free music playback. It's counter productive and surprising for an experienced reviewer to propagate a mass market myth of ignorance which is at odds with the entire industry.
Follow Ups:
If we forget about the theorizing and trust his ears, these sound like pretty good speakers. Of course $22K may not be everyone's idea of Rational Pricing.
Makes me want to go out and find a pair of AR LST or Allison speakers!
..$22k is rational system pricing, except you still need a front end.
Perhaps for some...
Staying in SFO for the night traveling to Santa Rosa for a wedding this weekend. While eating at Ruth's Chris, noticed a nearby audio store with tube amps in the window. Walked a block over to Audio Vision and heard the KEF Blades driven by Naim electronics. While they were among the most coherent box speakers I've heard, I wasn't exactly bowled over - even if they were using Nordost Odin cabling. They were most certainly point sources whose sound was immediately evident as emanating from the center driver. Asking price? $29k. Really wish they were using the ARC electronics to drive them as there wasn't much dimensionality.
It was nevertheless refreshing to see a genuine brick and mortars audio store with some really nice stuff.
...hope you have some time to taste some good wine.
Santa Rosa area to Healdsburg and Dry Creek - some excellent choices.
Enjoy yourself in a much more sane part of the country.
Haven't heard any new equipment in a long time...
Went to Amista, Dutcher Crossing, Raymond Burr and Segheshio. While all were excellent, I preferred the relative new kids on the block, Amista. I'd like to join their club. I really liked their Syrah and Zin.
Time permitting, we'll go to an audio shop near Oakland tomorrow Rich pointed out that has Sound Lab and Magico. Never heard the latter before.
...Seghesio is the only one I know and have visited - their zins are usually excellent.
Not far from there is Lytton Srpings, now owned by Ridge, which started my zin obsession 30 years ago.
Good choice - Sonoma/Dry Creek is my favorite wine area since it's still relatively unspoiled with expansive vinyards and not too many wineries where you still see many winemakers in the tasting room pouring.
Maybe like Napa was 15 years ago.
We arrived late yesterday afternoon and took a nice ride across the Golden Gate and drove around Sausalito. Nice view of the city from there. There was also a huge Whole Foods store within a block of the audio store, too.
As it turns out, there is a scheduled tour in Santa Rosa this morning at 10:30. The plan is to visit four different wineries (not sure which) and sample their wares.
I too, really stopped visiting audio stores some time ago. It has only been visits to Sea Cliff over the years that has introduced me to new stuff. Bought the GamuT CD-1 and MB-450s after hearing them (or in the case of the amps, the big brother)there.
You can find a link to the complete review on this web page at the bottom.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
For how lofty the review, I've never heard a digital amplifier, at any price, that I thought sounded right.
That after going to great deal of trouble and expense to get a good analog signal, REG says we should go ahead and digitize the signal for room correction. Not based on experience, just don't wanna do it.
the sampling isnt at 44.1 and functions like crossovers and of course room correction work better digitally.
if someone donates the steinway/lyngdorf system to me, i would certainly try it.
...regards...tr
Or anyplace where you can't have best speaker placement and room treatment. In a bedroom, you could have the Lyngdorf against the opposite wall, and not interfere with traffic patterns.
the decision cannot be made.
...regards...tr
Knows what he's talking about, particularly good missive!And you know, he says it for ears that hear, and who gives a care about the rest.
"let's play for the plebes" - from movie, old lady says
the savor of everything - Bob Neill
Edits: 12/30/11
I went back and checked the article, and here's a fuller version of what he said:". . . but cello and bass sections and trombones have a sense of definition and clarity in real life that almost always escapes reproduced sound.
"Everyone has noticed this for a long time and wondered why this clarity and definition is lost and how to get it back."
So I think he was talking about the about the midbass and lower midrange, rather than the entire range of the amplifier. Which corresponds with my own experience, in that amplifiers seem to differ in the mids and highs, and at the resonance point of the woofer.
My sense is also that he's right about why this goes to pieces, modal resonances below the Schroeder frequency. I came to that realization because properly set-up dipole woofers have an ability to reproduce that natural bass sound that omnidirectional woofers don't, and yet the performance of the drivers isn't always better -- in fact, it can be significantly worse, with higher levels of harmonic distortion at high levels and many cycles of ringing. But if dipole woofers are parallel to the front wall, they don't excite the vertical and lateral axial modes, and if in a rectangular room you sit the same distance from the rear wall as the speakers are from the front, line source dipole woofers cancel some of the remaining depth axial modes as well. That significantly reduces not just amplitude response aberrations, but time smear, and the instruments start to sound like instruments rather than a smear or blur.
Edits: 12/30/11
"modal resonances below the Schroeder frequency."
Praise Jesus!
the savor of everything
"modal resonances below the Schroeder frequency"
So, someone has a frequency named after them? In that case, I name 20Hz and below as the IRON KNEE.
It's named for the character in Peanuts. Lucy has one too.
"So, someone has a frequency named after them?"
Not a specific frequency, the frequency depends on the acoustics of the room.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
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