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In Reply to: RE: Black Mamba vs DH Labs with various connectors. posted by atkinsonrr on August 17, 2020 at 13:50:59
Just a note to say the Viborg design is on par if not superior to the IeGo (not 'LeGo') design, since the Viborg termination clamping mechanism is similar to an Oyaide and Furutech product, rather than the more damage prone Wattgate design that the IeGo product is based on. Otherwise, the unplated copper Viborg vs. unplated copper IeGo products with plastic shells are virtually identical sounding, whereas the gold-plated versions are different, in that there is a silver-plated substrate involved with the gold-plated Viborg design, with no substrate involved with the gold-plated IeGo design. I have no experience of the gold-plated IeGo product, so can't comment on their sonic differences.
Follow Ups:
Hi Duster. I've encountered two clamping mechanisms used in connectors I have on hand here. One is the "squeeze between two plates" type as best seen in the pic above in the transparent connector @ top right. The second type is the "set screw and hole" type, best seen in the pic in the connector @ far left. I checked pics of Wattgate and Furutech plugs on the internet and am not sure which clamping mechanism you find superior. I would think the "squeeze between two plates" would have less opportunity for damaging the wire?
You may be referring to the Schuko plug which is a different animal. What I mean is the Viborg vs. MPS which is the same as the IeGo and Wattgate design. The larger clamping mechanism of the Viborg is the same as the Oyaide and Furutech design.
Yes, I am referring to Schuko plugs. From what I have on hand and what I can see on the web it looks like the leGo and Furutech Schuko plugs use the same clamping mechanism. While the more recent Viborg Schuko plugs have moved to the "set screw in the hole" which to me seems less secure, less conductive and more prone to damage the wire(although a bit easier to terminate).
At first I didn't like the Viborg Schuko termination clamping feeling -like you- this to be less secure and flimsier compared to the standard termination with the wire between two plates. After using the Viborg Schukos for some time now I like it much better. The pins of the Schuko male connector are made from one massive piece of copper with a rather long hole for the wire to be inserted. You should use long crimped wire end sleeves that protect the wire and gives a very tight and good contact directly to the copper pin when tightened with the two set screws. In order to find the second set screw you have to push out the pin either all the way or at least so far so you can see it . After the termination of the wire you can push the pin back into the final position of the plug. You only need some pressure by your hand to slide the pin back and forth in the connector. I think this design is actually superior to the standard clamping between two plates. Here (for the IEC plug) I prefer to use crimped cable lugs between the two plates.
Thanks for the tips re: the Viborg Schukos. I have three with copper contacts (in unplated, gold and rhodium) on order to go with some orphan Viborg copper contact IECs I have. I will be sure to terminate as you suggest.
Uwe --
I just had the need to make up another cable with a Viborg Schuko and tried your method of terminating. If I'm doing it right, this means unscrewing the back off the plastic piece, then muscling the N and L prongs back, unscrewing the Ground terminal from the front and pulling it back. Then feeding all three wires into the terminals and securing them with two set screws per terminal. This was awkward but workable.
But then I realized I forgot to feed the wires through the back of the now detached back of the plastic piece before securing wires to terminals. Argh! Took terminals back apart and fed wires through back of the plastic piece. Now, I didn't have enough slack to feed wires into terminals and re-secure them. Perhaps if the cable jacket was stripped back twice what I usually strip it back I would have enough slack. But then once the plug was reassembled, the shell wouldn't cover the stripped cable jacket.
I can't imagine this is what Viborg had in mind?
I never had the problem you mentioned. But you could always cover the stripped cable jacket with heatshrink.
BTW, you might consider upgrading the Power Plus with a DIY Acoustic Revive Power Standard tripleC 8800 bulk power cable terminated with the gold-plated IeGo AC connectors you ordered. It should sound excellent for use with your power amplifier, since it provides a bold and musical sounding presentation for a high-current application. IME. It's a real pleasure to work with, too.
See link:
Duster, did you ever compare Acoustic Revive 8800 to Furutech DPS-4.1?
I have no experience of the Furutech DPS-4.1 bulk power cable.
It's Furutech's top of the line product. Do you have any experience of the DPS-4.1, Maril555?
I do,
I'm currently using two, terminated with Furutech FI-46 NCF connectors on my power amps.
I've tried it on my Avantgarde Duo powered subwoofers and my preamp, and didn't like the results in both scenarios.
I'm interested in trying Acoustic Revive 8800 on Avantgarde subs and possible power amps.
The Acoustic Revive 8800 does not involve as much shielding as the Furutech DPS-4.1, so it may sound more dynamic than the DPS-4.1 when used for your power amplifier. Findings will soon be posted by atkinsonrr, and I expect he will be very pleased after the Acoustic Revive 8800 is burned-in. It's very important to allow ample burn-in time for a more transparent presentation, with less congestion.
Could you compare it to Black Mamba V2?
I have a pretty good sense of it, as I've used it with all possible connectors throughout the system.
There is something about the Oyaide Black Mamba V2 that tends to not provide the type of synergy for high-current applications as the Acoustic Revive 8800 does. Other than being a 12 AWG power cord instead of a 10 AWG power cord which is more advisable for use with a power amplifier, there is nothing I can surmise about the design that would account for such a thing. The Acoustic Revive 8800 is also a 12 AWG power cord, with only a very thin pure copper foil shield, just like the Black Mamba V2 but without a drain wire (the 8800 features a floating shield design), so the gauge of the two power cords can't account for the difference in performance, in this case.
That said, I can only hope others find the Acoustic Revive 8800 to sound as good as I do for a high-current application, since the sonic signature of the power cord is very satisfying for the purpose, IME. The price is also very reasonable for such a high-quality product, and could be considered a great mate to use with the Oyaide Black Mamba V2 placed on source components and a preamplifier, with the Acoustic Revive 8800 placed on a power amplifier, and to connect a power distributor/conditioner to an AC outlet installed at the wall.
Hello Duster,
I wanted to come out of my lurker's cave to thank you for the Acoustic Revive 8800 recommendation. For a long time, I've been unsatisfied with the power cables that have fed my power strip (which feeds the entire system), some of which have been very pricey. I ordered some 8800 using one of your links (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Acoustic-Revive-POWER-STANDARD-tripleC8800-2m-2meter-Cable-From-JP/172450823418). Great service from Japan, by the way!
I had a set of FI-50 (R) connectors handy - built the power cord, plugged it into the power strip, and VOILA! Better than anything I've heard, even without break-in.
I'm approaching 100 hours on the cable, and it is, as you say, slightly on the sweet side of neutral, but using it in this application is actually a plus to my ears. In addition, there are no unmusical artifacts during playback.
I'm thinking about getting another for my power amp, but everything sounds so good right now I'm hesitant to make any changes.
Again, many thanks for your recommendation, Duster!
Dave Allison
Hi Dave, I'm so glad to know about your findings, since there is little talk about the performance of the Acoustic Revive 8800 online. I like it so much for use as a power line distributor array power cord (actually two: one for analog, one for digital) within my computer workstation system, I'm considering using the 8800 for use within the power line distributor array for my main system, as well. Enjoy!
Hi Duster,
I've just found this Acoustic Revive cable on eBay:
https://www.playstereo.com/en/cavi-di-alimentazione/3603-acoustic-revive-power-sensual-triplec-18000-power-cable-15m-cut-sales.html
It's the only site that has any specs on this cable. At first glance, it seems to be 10-gauge instead of 12-gauge - indeed, maybe the only difference.
Have you seen this cable before? The AR 8800 works so well on my power strip that I'm loathe to make any changes, but I can't help being curious!
Dave Allison
I think you are correct, Dave.
From what I gather, the Acoustic Revive "Power Sensual" 18000 is the same design as the Acoustic Revive "Power Standard" 8800, but the 18000 is 10 AWG rather than 12 AWG.
If you can afford the 18000, I'm sure it would be considerably more effective (bolder sounding) than the 8800 for a high-current application, but not 'too different' if that's of concern.
The 8800 performs very well for use with a DAC, and more than likely a preamplifier, so the 8800 won't become an orphan if you have another component to try it with.
I would also think the 8800 would perform well when used with a computer for audio purposes.
Duster,
Question about Acoustic Revive 8800. I just got mine delivered and realized it doesn't have drain wire.
Should I use copper foil shield in lieu of the drain wire?
Thanks.
Indeed, there is no drain wire, Maril555.
The Acoustic Revive 8800 features a floating shield which is not intended to be grounded.
Simply leave the thin copper foil shield unconnected at both ends.
Thank you,
Made two cables last night with Furutech FI-11 AC and Furutech FI-28 IEC, will try them on the Avantgarde speakers active subs after the burn-in.
Surprisingly, AC cord in that position significantly affects the overall performance of the speakers.
Those Furutech AC connectors should mate very well with the Acoustic Revive 8800 for use with the active subwoofers. I'm looking forward to your findings.
Thank you, and I can echo your sentiment about Black Mamba being more suitable for the front end component, than power amps.
It was clearly noticeable in my system.
The other great PC there was PAD 25th Anniversary, but that is a $10,000 proposition
Thanks for the recommendation, Duster. Just ordered 1.5m of the 8800 TripleC. Found a vendor in Italy for almost the same price so I will have no worries about any duty and tax surprises when it arrives.
I plan to make up .75M cords, like I did with the Black Mamba. However, I sometimes run across claims that the minimum or optimal length for a power cord is 1.5M. Do you have any thoughts or experience on this?
There are very few power cord designs that have a minimum recommended length, such as the Van den Hul Mainsstream Hybrid power cable with a noise filtering layer that needs to be no less than 1.5 meters in order to function properly. Otherwise, practicality is the best rule to follow.Unless I have a situation the requires a longer length than usual power cord, I always build a 1.5 meter (5 foot) power cord, even if the application can use a shorter length. Since I swap-out power cords throughout various audio systems as part of my hobby, I never want to be stuck with a power cord that won't reach a component.
If your set-up allows 0.75 meter power cords to be used without issue, that's perfectly fine, atkinsonrr. However, power cords that are less than 0.5 meter have not performed as well as longer lengths in my experience, so I would opine that folks should beware of power cords that are very short, indeed.
Edits: 08/19/20
Thanks for the clarification. Still waiting for the Acoustic Revive cable, but the leGo Schukos and IECs came in. They look to be quite good quality. They have the clamping style terminations and the terminations are all copper. In the Viborgs, only the side of the termination that is the connector contact is copper, the other side of the termination (whether clamp or set screw) is brass.
Once I receive the Acoustic Revive cable, I'll see if I can discern differences between connectors and between the 8800 Triple C and the Black Mamba. Will report back. Italy is on August vacation so it will be a few days.
I see what you mean about the Schuko plugs.
I don't use or study Schuko plugs, never even held one in my hand.
I'm looking forward to knowing about your findings, atkinsonrr.
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