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I kind of like the the BAT 50se but new tubes are going to run $400. Plus the se tubes run really hot making intergration into a lower-profile set up with 2 speaker HT untenable. Audio remains my primary focus. Classical, jazz and folk are preferences. My system is listed under inmate systems.I can sell the BAT50se for 4k (what i paid for it as a new demo) - What are some decent replacements for 4k or less? I'm thinking I'll keep the GamuT d200 Mk 2 amp. It's a great amp and can only sell it for half of what its worth to me. I'm not giving up the Cary 303/200 cdp either as it's the digital front-end for my new lossless compression library.
Any thoughts on the PS Audio or Primare? I live in Denver and there just aren't a lot of auditioning options anymore out here in the provinces.
Follow Ups:
Hinduclient, thanks for giving prospective 50se buyers a "heads up" on your preamp. You bought it several years ago as a demo for $4,000 and you plan to try to sell now for $4,000; interesting marketing plan if you can pull it off....I wish you luck
Why not? Buy right, sell right! ;-)I once owned a used 71 Datsun 240z that I bought for $3500. Sold it for $4500 after driving it for 2 years.
I'm not as lucky with audio gear but I rarely take a huge depreciation hit since I buy mostly used or demo.
.
Take the opportunity to have your 50SE upgraded to the 51SE - it truly rocks - well worth the upgrade costs!
Could not agree more!All the best,
Tom
How often do you have to replace tubes in a preamp for crying out loud?
I have the Gamut D200 MkII as well. I use a Juicymusic Audio Peach linestage with it and the sound is just superb.
Email me with questions if you want.
This would be a less expensive alternative but one that i believe might actually be a step up.
Check out the Juicymusicaudio.com website for more info. Truly a giant killer, if a little bit offbeat in the looks dept.
Modwright SWL 9.0SE. Hybrid with 2 5687s (or 7119s or 6900s). $40. for a pair of croyed NOS 5687s. Home theater bypass.
Put Pearl Tube coolers on them and extend tube life 2X-5X. I have been using the non-NOS version of this tube from tubestore.com in my VK75SE and they sound fine.Dave
In open air the tube coolers -might- work to some extent but the tubes in the BAT preamp are confined in a hot chassis. Without additional air circulation, I doubt that the tube coolers will have any beneficial affect on tube life (certainly not 2x- 5x)..... which addresses only one of this concerns anyway.The fact that the BAT chassis expels so much heat requires that it be placed in a rack shelf with sufficient clearance to let the thing breathe. He needs a preamp that is more 'rack friendly' that won't toast the rack or itself if it's placed in a tighter spot.
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I have a VK5i with 6922s & Tube Coolers, in a rack with the preamp cover removed from the chassis at all times. I find that operation with the chassis cover off is of great benefit in cooling, and also makes short work to identify the occassional noisy tube that crops up over years of use. The Coolers have significantly stretched the interval between retubing & help as well with microphonics. You could also try the Mapleshade brass versions. I can't imagine investing in expensive NOS tubes without Coolers to prolong their life.Dave
I had the BAT D5 cdp with 6 - 6922 tubes. It was warm to the touch but not hot. The 50se with 8 - 6H30s is a whole other beast - WAY hotter.
I would think that the hotter the tube, the more it would benefit from finned cooling. Before using the Coolers, I got about 1200 hrs before sonic degradation in the MUCH hotter 6C33 output tubes in my VK75SE. Since using Coolers, they're out over 2100 hrs now and still sounding fine. Just hate to see you abandon a great preamp for the wrong reasons....Good luck,
Dave
Yes, and the coolers on your 6C33's are in open air where they can dissipate the heat. The issue is about the 6H30's confined inside the VK50se where the tube coolers (heat sinks) will offer little if any benefit.Additionally, the VK50se chassis will expel the same amount of heat (it has to go somewhere) whether tube coolers are in place or not. So the tube coolers have NO benefit in reducing the heat dissipation from the chassis.
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The Pearl Tube Coolers draw heat out of the glass and into hollow vertical metal columns formed by pleated fins. The hollow fins in turn are cooled by the convection effect of hot air rising up the pleated fin column and out the top into atmosphere. The smokestack design of the fins creates the convection, which will not be produced by glass, glass-metal, or glass-metal-air contact alone. This convection effect, together with improved heat-transfer owing to the large surface area and thinness of the pleated metal fins, WILL lower tube glass surface temperature as long as the temperature of the surrounding air medium in the chassis is less than the surface temperature of the glass. This is true whether the chassis cover is on or off, but of course, cooling is improved with the cover removed. There is no absolute limit to heat dissipation of the chassis. And even a 50 or 100 degree reduction in tube glass temperature will extend tube life.Unlike some audio accessories, the Coolers are based on good science.
Dave
Regardless of how much the tubes cost or how often you need to replace them, the VK50se will always run hot so I understand your desire to try something else that fits more easily anywhere in your rack. Additionally, I know it's a cliche' with BAT gear but I also thought the over all sound of their tube preamps were a bit on the "dark" side for my taste and could have been more transparent with better top end extension.I'm enjoying the Cary SLP-05 a lot more than I did the BAT. It's more "open" sounding with great speed and frequency extension up top with deep tight bass. It's not overly rich, robust, or lush but still has a very nice midrange with 'clarity' that I didn't get from the BAT.
If the SLP-98 is anything like the SLP-05 (I don't know), it might be worth considering as it falls well within your budget. And it doesn't run hot. My SLP-05 has 8 6SN7 tubes in it. I can place the palm of my hand on all the tubes and leave it there forever. The tubes are barely warm to the touch.
The only downside, and this might be a big one, is that Cary doesn't have the world class user interface and remote that the BAT preamps do. It's pretty basic on the Cary.... Volume Up / Down / Mute via remote. That's it... but it sounds wonderful.
The Cary SLP-05 and SLP-98 do have a theater pass through that is better than the BAT and most other preamps. When the Cary is OFF, the pass through is selected by default. And with the Cary powered up, there's a theater pass through toggle switch. What is nice about the Cary implementation is that the processor signal is truly just hard wire "passed through" via switches and relays and doesn't go through any electronics, "unity gain" buffers or otherwise. So the Cary imparts NO sonic signature of it's own when in pass through mode, which is not the case with BAT and many others.
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For $400 it looks like you have been pricing the "old stock" 6H30s that are advertised on the 'Net. There are some commentators who feel that there is little to be gained with those. Alex Peychev (APL HiFi) tried those in his SACD/CD player (nee Denon) and thought that the normally available 6H30s sounded better.As otari mentioned, you can retube for less than $400.
That said, I did buy 8 of those 6H30s and put them away for a rainy day. The original BAT tubes are good for at least 10,000 hours - but probably will last longer. What aspects of the sound make you feel that you need new tubes.
At 7 hours a day it will take 4 years to hit 10,000 hours; do you think your unit has been used that much?
And then when you do replace the valves, you are good for another 4 years. This doesn't seem like much of an imposition to me.
I'm failing to fully grasp your logic. If your second sentence re "tubes run really hot making intergration ... untenable" then I can undertsand better. But selling the BAT just because you have to retube it every 4 years or so seems odd.
Regards,
Geoff
Hi Geoff,It's been right at 4 years for me since the last retube. The first 2 years I left in standby when not listening, now I turn it all the way off between sessions. I do listen to it everyday, often as a pre for my VCR. I like cable TV audio way better through the main system :-)
Upscale Audio sells the 6H30s for $45. When Metralla suggested I could get for $18 each, wow, I find that pretty compelling!
Do you keep you 50se in standby or all the way off between sessions?
If you're looking for solid state replacement, I can suggest1) XTC PRE II (Around 1500 British Stirling)
2) Superphon Revelation III (USD$2200)
I own both units and really enjoying them. Placette Active Linestage also a great option as far as solid state goes but it costs $4500. I plugged this into my system at one time and the result was fantastic! The Superphon sounds "almost" as good as that with "different presentation" in my system but way.......less money.
Both PS and Primare are pretty decent, especially the one from PS Audio with gain cell, but both of them not the same class as the XTC, Superphon and Placette, these 3 are overall better than PS audio and Primare.
Considering your amplifier is Gamut, both Placette and Superphon might be a better choice. XTC will offer more tube like tonality but not warmth like the overly old tube gear! Depends on what you're looking for.
Hope this help!
Dear pushpulltriode,one question about XTC pre amps: There seem to be the pre I and the pre II. Do you kow the exact difference in performance? Where to get XTC? haven't seen them in the market very often.
Many thanks.
Regards,
mhhd
check out Bue Circle. They have the smoothest SS and hybrid amps on the market. absolutely not harsh, very musical, and hand built! i own two BC amps and absolutely love them!
You are getting your tubes from the wrong place. I re-tubed my 50SE from: thetubestore.com.No majik oils used on the tubes, and it was back sounding the way it should. Far less than $400.
best,
otari :-)
My mother-in-law, after seeing the Levinson 33H amps in my listening room: "Those are the nicest electric room heaters I've ever seen".
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