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Greetings,Apologies for the long posting, but it seems maybe I'll get more informed answers if I provide more background.
I am struggling right now with what to do about my power amps. I recently bought a pair of B&W Matrix 801 II loudspeakers, with which I am pleased. My preamp is an ARC SP-8 and I have no expectation to change that. It has a good phono stage and I like its sound. I have three power amps: a Hafler DH-220, an ARC VT-100 and a Bryston 4B-ST. I keep the Hafler around as a spare but don't use it much.
Due to a power outage and electrical surge while my VT-100 was plugged in, turned on and well warmed up, one of the fuses blew. The next day I found the bottom half of a resistor on the floor under the amp. An examination revealed the blown resistor and some scorching and circuit board damage in the area near the V-10 tube socket. There's a possibility I could have ARC repair the VT-100, but the cost would likely be over $2,000. which might be better spent on a different power amp.
The Bryston and Hafler amps work, so fortunately I am not without music.
I prefer the more "musical" sound of tube amps particularly in the treble, hence my use of the VT-100. There's no doubt that the Bryston 4B-ST has better control over the bass. However I sometimes find the high frequencies a bit too etched and hard.
I listen to mostly classical music and opera at moderate levels (ca. 98 db peaks typically according to my R.S. meter) so I am not looking for arena rock sound pressure levels and want something that produces voices and strings in a natural-sounding manner, without hard, over-etched, "hi-fi" sound. I am especially sensitive to this in operatic vocals, choruses and orchestral strings which often sound screechy on some electronics.
So I am looking in the used amp market for a solution. I don't want to spend over $3,000. I am considering the following options at this time:
ARC VT-100 Mk II or III. This would give me a newer amp with a sound quality I know I like. Bass may be a bit soft, but to me, that is preferable to etched highs if that trade-off is inevitable.ARC VT-200. This amp is about at the price limit for me. I am considering it because the power output may be better able to drive the speakers. However, I worry about this amp as I have read that they eat a lot of tubes and keeping the tubes working would be a very expensive proposition. I have no way of knowing whether this is generally true of this amp or was a bad experience of one owner.
VTL. I've heard good things, but do not know the models or costs I might consider.
Moving on to solid state:
Mark Levinson 431 should have enough power, but I'm unsure of the sound quality or reliability. Would come with no warranty.
Bryston 4B-SST similar in power to the above, will probably have some warranty left, is supposedly more refined and smoother than the amp I have, but I'm unsure if it will be "enough" smoother.
I don't know enough about models I might consider by Pass Labs, GAS Ampzilla, Threshold, Krell, Classe or Mcintosh.
So that's my problem.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
George
Edits: 08/14/14Follow Ups:
This has been very helpful, and I just wanted to say "thanks" to all respondents. You have given me a lot to think about.
Right now, I'm looking for a local repair person, as several of you suggested, to see if I can save some money. I have also been back in contact with ARC and recognize the figure they gave me for repairs was a worst-case-scenario, and that, once they assess the actual condition of the amp, we can decide what course of action to take.
I am also researching the amps you suggested.
I'm not sure yet what the outcome will be.
best,
George
I would definitely fix the ARC amp even if you decide to go a different direction. Hard to sell a non-working tube amp.
If you prefered your ARC to your SS amps, I would stick with tubes. If you sell the ARC I would consider Rogue Audio tube products. They are reliable, made in the U.S., have tube fuses to prevent the type of resistor melt-downs that occur with ARC amps, can use multiple different output tubes like KT88/6550/KT90/KT120, EL34, KT66, 6L6gc, and provide bias pots for each tube, allowing the use of unmatched {NOS} tubes,and are reasonably priced.
A used Stereo 90 or M150 can often be found under $2k, the new Stereo 100 or M180 are just above your budget.
I have used a Stereo 90 for 5 years now, very reliable and easy to bias, if a tube goes south you just replace the fuse and tube and are back up andrunning in minutes. I would say the sound is similar (but not the same) as ARC, a "modern" tube sound with reasonably tight bass and clean detailed mids and high end with some tube "bloom". Definitely not an overly warm, romantic,tubey presentation.
You can get a pair of new monos for around $3000. Bulletproof, great sounding, not harsh, and great bass control. You'll thank me. Good luck.
They sounded great.
I have owned and loved the B&W Matrix 801 mkIII. For tubes I can recommend the Manley Snappers you can find them used around 3k. For Solid State I recommend the PASS X250 in your budget or the 250.5 for around 4500+ used
Hi George, as you can see from the impedance/phase graph they are quite an easy load even where the 7ohm load crosses with -30 degree phase angle at 6khz.
So you don't need a brute amp with lots of current, and they are of meduim efficiency at 87db.
A good an amp of 100w which you like the sound will do, push/pull tube, solid state mosfet or BJT.Cheers George
Edits: 08/14/14
Sounds like you are open to both tube and solid state amps. For this situation, in my opinion the only reasons NOT to consider Pass would be cost and the heat factor. But since you own a tube amp I assume heat is not an issue. Pass amps are known to be among the smoothest sounding SS amps and appeal to both camps (accuracy and tube-men)
I have the little brother to your speakers, the Matrix 803 s2. These speakers like power. My Pass x250.5 drives them brilliantly and sounds superb.
Along the lines of premium pass, I'd toss the TOP Parasound, the JC-1 monos into the mix.
HIGHLY biased into class 'a', they will drive any reasonable and nearly any UNreasonable load.
Be that reactive or simply lower impedance.
Yes, some of the Pass can run Really Warm. At T.H.E. Newport, the room showing the Big Pass Monos was THE hottest room in the house. Literally. The amp in question was the XS-300, the moving around of, is its OWN problem! The full-on 4 piece set needs a forklift to move.
Too much is never enough
How about the old Carver Sunfire. A friend who built his own tube gear for decades(usually push/pull triode with no feed back) that were very smooth heard them and stopped playing with tubes. They are either about 300 or 600 watts a channel into 8 ohms and they double to 4 ohms and again to 2 ohms indicating a big power supply that doesn't get drained. So they'll play loud, handle huge transients without clipping even at high average levels, even into inefficient speakers and they sound like good solid state that kissed a tube amp. It could be what you're looking for.
that replacing a power tube and its resistor would run $2k. You could nearly buy another VT-100 for that! If you like the amp, fixing it would be your least expensive option.
I once used a VT-100 MKII driving Acoustats. After hearing VTLs, I purchased a pair of MB-450s and have enjoyed them for 13 odd years. I think they do a better job than the ARC. And they are fused to prevent the kind of meltdown you just experienced. As for models, a ST-150 (stereo 150 watts / channel) would be similar. I also see newer ARC power amps in that power range as well on agon.
Good luck with getting that resolved.
E-Stat (and George) - the VT-100 is an excellent amplifier. It DOES have some downsides with respect the ease of biasing, and the way they let resistors pop versus fuses doesn't seem very user friendly.
As to repair? Any decent tech should be able to get it up and running for substantially less than $2k - more like $200.
I'd say the VT-100 would be a FAIR tube amp for the 801s, but not great. They really need more than 100 wpc. An ARC D-250 servo does a great job!
I would take the suggestions of other tube amps rated at 100 watts or less with a fairly large grain of salt. They may be excellent in many applications, but I don't see them bringing out the best in your B&Ws.
I concur w/ David S the D250Mk2 servo will make mince meat of the 801 or better yet the Classic 150 or M300 triode Mk 2 are also a good match. Heard a B&W 801 series 1 back in the day w/ a D115 mk 2 not a good match!
Mondial
Tube amplifiers tend to be simple and not very expensive to repair. I suggest you try to find an asylum inmate near you that works on tube equipment and have him look at your VT-100.
I am very pleased with my Parasound Halo A21 driving a pair of Thiel CS3.7 speakers. These are 3-ohm speakers and the Halo A21 drives them with ease. I also used the Halo A21 with a pair of B&W PM-1 speakers and they sounded very good to me, too. However, the Thiel's are really a class act.
Thank you John. I'll add the Parasounds to my list to research. I once had a pair of Thiel CS 3.6s. Like the B&Ws, they could be a bit hard on high frequencies. How does your 3.7/Halo do on high frequencies? I envy you your 3.7s. I'd love to hear a pair sometime, but would have to wait for a used pair as they are way too expensive for me.
George
> How does your 3.7/Halo do on high frequencies?
The Thiel CS3.7's mellowed during break-in more than any speaker I've owned. Now that they are fully broken-in, the Thiel CS3.7's sound very smooth in the highs and the Parasound Halo A21 seems like the perfect amp for them. I couldn't be happier. This is the best sounding system I've ever owned and one of the best I've ever heard.
Good luck,
John Elison
Great sounding amp wired in triode makes 100 watts per monoblock and not ridiculously expensive. This amp has the grunt to drive your B&Ws and I have heard it sound pretty darn good.
Another one from Antique Sound Labs is the Cadenza. It is a 60 watt Class A push/pull triode amp... darn good sounding too.
Sounds promising! I'll look into this further.
George
I've never been a big ARC fan, just not my cup of tea.
The best big tube amps I've heard and gotten to use in my own system were CJ Premier 12's. My brother has been using a pair for the past 10 years. They're pretty reliable and sound fabulous. He uses them on a pair of Aerial 10's. Very good bass control. Not sure if you can find a pair at 3K but they are worthy of consideration.
Thanks for your suggestion. I shall look further into this amp.
George
I have owned both the S2 and S3 B&W 801's...of the many amps that I ran these speakers with the two that stood out where the Classe Audio S-1000 and the Luxman M-05.
Thanks. I shall look into these two amps.
George
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