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HiI'm condidering letting my SLI-80 go. We've been good friends now for several years, but lately I've been wondering if there aren't some nice SS integrated alternatives. Truthfully, though I love the sound of tubes, at times they are a hassle, and especially this time of year, the amount of heat the beast generates is not inconsiderable.
If possible I'd like something with a reasonable MM capability as well, preferably onboard, but I won't rule out a separate phono stage.
I mostly listen in triode mode, to rock and jazz - so I need good dynamics/prat/imaging - so far the Rega(Elicit) and especially the Naim(XS) are on the shortlist - any information on these or other pieces is welcome - let's say under $3200 - of course if what I'm after can be had for less, bring it on.
Should also mention my speakers are Cornwall III's - 102db, so lots 'o watts aren't necessary.
thanks,
Chip
Edits: 05/17/12Follow Ups:
nowdays you won't find "warm" sounding amps.The only one that springs to mind (without an oofensive treble) is the T&A E series powerplant.
Downmarket, the Rega Brio-R could easily fit the bill. Great sound and a nice MM phono stage for less than $900.
Listening in Them Woods
Well before you dump the idea of tubes - let me suggest alternatives. Grant Fidelity's Rita for example is a "cool operation" tube amp - touch the sides or top and it's about as cool as a SS receiver. But it's not a warm sounding amplifier - however they may offer a different kind of tube amp with the same cool operation.
With 102db sensitivity I would suggest my own Audio Note OTO integrated. EL 84 based output tubes typically last longer and the OTO doesn't run very hot. The OTO is one of the warmer sounding Audio Note amps - and it's not all that expensive. With the new Signature version out second hands ones will likely become available - just get the Phono SE version and you have a nice MM stage built in. You can get these for around $1800-$2200 second hand. And tube replacement is inexpensive because EL84s are inexpensive. They have a life expectancy of about 8000 hours.
An amp I am considering is the Line Magnetic 218 mini which is also an EL 84 based integrated headphone amp. It's 3 watts and won't run hot. And my speakers are only 90db. Downside is no Phono stage and only one input. But it's $800 so...
SS amps like the Sugden A21a would give you some of the SET attributes but then it runs bloody hot.
Still the OTO doesn't run very hot and is perhaps somewhat overlooked because they don't replace amps every 2 years to get review press. It's been selling for nearly 20 years and does a lot right. A lot more right than anything I've heard from any Solid State amplifiers.
I would move to the cooler running SE and SETs than SS. The speakers should be more than fine unless they possess demon impedance dips which I don't believe is the case.
Alternatively - buy an air conditioner.
Just in case you elect to stay with valves, I suggest that you look at a used Audio Note Oto SE Phono. Sometimes they are available for under $2K. This is one of my favorite amps - it plays music very well and is built like a tank. EL84s, so it doesn't get too warm. The Phono version includes an excellent MM phono stage. I have used mine with a variety of horns, including Cornwalls, and I haven't heard another tube amp that I found to be substantially better.
Highly recommended.
Br3098 - can I ask what kind of volume you get with the Oto? And are the dynamics and soundstage satisfying?
Truth be told, I spin a fair amount of vinyl at ~90db so the volume in particular is a concern.
I love a good EL84 - my favorite guitar amps use them as well.
thanks,
C
C,
Sorry for the delay. In regards to volume w/ the Audio Note Oto SE Phono - I guess that it depends on your speakers and your room. More efficient speakers are probably the best bet, but I have paired this amp with many speakers and (almost) always been satisfied. You are not going to drive Apogee planars with this amp; although it does work beautifully with Quad 57s.
My listening room for this amp is small (12 x 14), so volume is never an issue. This output transformers on this amp are quite beefy, so there is actually quite a bit of current available to the speakers.
With regards to soundstage and dynamics - I have no complaints. I am also partial to the EL84 tube. I have compared this amp to the Jadis JOR and the Leben CS-300, and I prefer the Audio Note but I am partial to SET amps. If you are in or going to be in Southern California anytime shoot me an email and I'll let you hear for yourself.
Bill
Hey Bill -
My listening area is about the same - 10x14 - at that size, with the efficiency of the Cornwall's, I have to think I'd be ok with the volume - just not experienced with so few watts.
Thanks also for the kind offer - as I'm halfway across the country it's doubtful I'll be in the area, but the offer is appreciated none the less.
Chip
Watts are highly overrated :-)
I have run Audio Note Es and Snell Es/Js in this room, and they are much less efficient than your Cornwalls. I am currently running a pair of CS-1s (Bob Crites' design) that work very well.
I tried a set of Cornwalls with this amp, but IMO the bass was too overpowering for the room. If I were going to try it again, I would probably replace the stock xover with a pair of ALK CornScala-Wall Universals. $299 a pair, thay only take about 30 minutes to install (if you are all thumbs like me) and they make a world of difference in the sound.
In the spirit of Sugden A21a (in fact, sounds damn good, definitely on the "warm" side as you'd like, runs hot like Sugden, hand made in UK like Sugden, small boutique mfr like...Sugden), you might want to check out a Sonneteer Alabaster. I have an Alabaster for sale now (beautiful condition). $1395 (new = $2800 - $3000, the price's in audiogon bluebook are old). Don't take my word for it, and do lots of research. I was going to use it in my bedroom system but it has no remote, decided I want an integrated with a remote. Here is Sonneteer site: http://www.sonneteer.demon.co.uk/ Have fun on your search!
Sorry I posted without seeing this.
I run Audio Note J/Spe speakers 92.5db sensitive in corners. Volume and bass will not be an issue - your speakers are 102db sensitive. You will be able to play significantly louder (twice the perceived volume) that I can play.
If you can find a dealer they will usually let you bring it home to try first to be sure.
Most AN speakers really are not all the sensitive - not compared to horns. So if they can belt it out on the J/Spe or 90db K/Spe - a 100db Klipsch will be less of an issue in all likely-hood.
Thanks Br, I'll add Audio Note to the list - the one you've described sounds ideal.
Chip
Thanks everyone - lots of good ideas that I hadn't considered. Especially the names I'm not familiar with - Unison, Wyred4Sound, Quicksilver, Creek.
I've discovered a few on my own too, Cambridge, Exposure, Vincent, and Luxman.
Now I have to actually find some of them...ugh.
thanks again for your help and suggestions,
Chip
I think Naim would fit your bill given your desire for PRAT & the kind of music you listen to. I own two sets of Naim sep. olive series, but have heard several Nait's 3,5, super. Naim has a kind of wholistic sound, but it's not tube like IMHO. I had a cj integrated cav50 years ago. That was warm sounding, but lacked the rythmic drive that Naim has. It was nice though. I have a Quicksilver mid-mono tubed & while not an integrated, it is very fairly priced IMHO and depending on the tubes you run you can add or subtract warmth. the little mini-mono by Quicksilver would be no problem for you, of course you could go single ended with a 300B amp as well..
Ben
I would look at el34's and copper cables. Hate to generalize but that's where I would start to look. I would also put something that runs quiet high on the list of wants.
Maybe a used ARS Sonum?
http://www.ars-sonum.com
I've often heard that the Cary SLI-80 is not a very "warm" sounding amp. How would you characterize it?
-------------------
I've owned a few Cary products and found the modestly priced 60wpc AES/Cary SixPac monoblocks (6 EL34s per side) to sound wonderfully warm and robust.
On the other hand, I also had the Cary CAD 120S stereo amp (8 KT88 tubes) at 60 watts per channel in triode mode and 120 watts per channel in ultralinear.
I didn't care for the CAD 120S at all. It was somewhat lean sounding to me as tube amps go. Not much midrange or lower midrange magic from this amp. It was either neutral, sterile, or just plain lean in comparison. The cheaper AES/Cary SixPacs were a lot better in my opinion.
I only mention this as I am curious where the SLI-80 sits in terms of neutral to lean or warm rich and robust.
Hey Abe
As the only 'serious' piece of tube hardware I've owned, I found it to be much warmer than the ss gear I'd owned up to that time - which was nothing special, mostly NAD and Rotel. I also had a Prima Luna before the Cary, that I liked very well.
I have no doubt the Sixpacs sound good - but 12 EL34's? Between guitar and hi-fi I'd be keeping the tube mfgr's financed lol.
"I have no doubt the Sixpacs sound good - but 12 EL34's? Between guitar and hi-fi I'd be keeping the tube mfgr's financed."
I know exactly what you're saying! And thanks for your comments on the SLI-80. The EL34s designed into the SixPacs were run conservatively so tube life was pretty decent.
I also owned a pair of Manley Neo Classic 250 monoblocks with 10 EL34 tubes per amp. Now that was an expensive beast to feed but it sure sounded nice.
I'm down to a Rogue Cronus Magnum integrated amp with 4 power tubes (presently KT120s). It's a nice sounding amp and more manageable in terms of heat and the cost of retubing.
Good luck in your search for a SS amp.
You might consider a Unison Research Unico.
I love my Creek Destiny. It's a nice cool running alternative to tubes, sounds lovely and meets all your criteria. It is slightly on the warm side of neutral but not excessively so, and does not have a harsh ss sound. It replaces my tubed amp/preamp during the summer months.
How about vintage? I have an upgraded (including the outstanding phono stage) Sansui AU D-11 for less than a quarter of your budget. It's currently running EPI100s in a bedroom system.
"Apparently, people now believe that mental telepathy is the foundation of communication and magic is the source of daily events. Consequently, we no longer have to participate in our own lives."
Hmmm - I have a Pioneer SX-950 currently in the Cary's spot, and the phono stage isn't bad...valid point.
Some new caps, resistors, etc,...who knows, you might be surprised.
"Apparently, people now believe that mental telepathy is the foundation of communication and magic is the source of daily events. Consequently, we no longer have to participate in our own lives."
Lavardin IS- price varies with the $. Hard to find in the US.
Portal Panache'-in your budget. An underrated amp.
Wyred4sound STI-500, or its bigger brother the STE-1000.
None of the above have a phono stage. Only the third has a remote.
Jack
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