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We have good 5 watt amps, but the list seems short for a $500 amp.
I have a Cambridge Audio Topaz AM5 INTEGRATED amp that was only $200. It's very good for the price, but I had to mod it to separate preamp and amp stages. All I wanted was a decent power amp. But what if all I want to pay for is an amp and up the quality to a $500 price point. Wouldn't this be nice to some customers?
An example for high end amps: Ayre sells its lowest price amp (too high for me) in an integrated only design. Would someone like to lower that price a few hundred dollars or whatever just to have the power amp section installed and no more? There are plenty of passive controls and decent low priced preamps (some DIY).
Maybe incrementing a separate at a time makes just as much sense for lower end price points as much as someone with a big budget.
I have a separate USB DAC with computer that already has volume and tone controls (if needed). But I also have an AVC already for volume instead. All I need is about 25 watts or a bit more out of this amp that can drive a 4 ohm load. Throw out all that I/O hardware and knobs and save cost.
Is there a list of such elusive amps without preamp installed with it (that adds no value for me)? Or good low cost ones that have separable preamp and power amp?
Thanks in advance.
Follow Ups:
I don't know if anyone has already mentioned it but...
For the price, the Outlaw Audio RR2150 Receiver is outstanding. Of course, you can also use it as an integrated amp or just a power amp. I own one of these and it's pretty impressive.
They sell direct for $699 new and sometimes put them on sale for $599 new. They also appear used on Audiogon now and then.
I would also consider a Marantz PM-8003 or the newer PM-8004 Integrated. they LIST for $999 but can be found used for much less. These sound excellent and are reasonably priced, but I don't think you can separate the amp section.
The Sophia S.E.T. Baby amp was $995 list, and often available $500 or less. It's a great little amp. (shameless plug - I have one of these units NIB for sale on here on AA).
Npt my cup of tea, but Emotive sells their little mini-X a-100 amp for $219. 50 Wpc Class AB (I think).
For SE or SET tube amps try tubelab.com and George has a Form on the diyaudio.com site. Well liked affordable amps from his boards. Can be be built to what you can afford depending mainly on the output transformers. On the SET amp the tubes can make a difference too.He also has a really nice affordable EL84/6BQ5 PP board and parts kit for
it too.http://www.tubelab.com/
http://www.tubelab.com/se_amp_pc.htm
http://www.tubelab.com/Simple_SE_board.htm
http://www.tubelab.com/AssemblyManualSimpleP-P/StartHere_SPP.html
http://diyparadise.com/forum/index.php?topic=904.80;wap2
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tubediy&m=198300
Randy
Edits: 05/27/12
The Emotiva mini-x A-100 is only 219.00 dollars for a 2 channel 50 watt amp at 8 ohms and 80 watts at 4 ohms. That is reasonable and well within you 500.00 dollar range. They also offer the UPA-5 a five channel amp with 80 watts per channel at 8 ohms and 120 watts per channel at 4 ohms.
Hi all ! The Belles A150 can be had used for $500 . This is an excellent SS amp . This is one of the few SS amps (that I have heard)that does the midrange right .
How about this Yamaha. Sort of partial to the Yamaha sound since my AVR is yamaha....
They may look a little industrial, but they're usually going to built pretty ruggedly, typically have level controls, 1/4" phone and XLR inputs: What more do you need?
QSC amps are quite capable performers in a home system.
John K.
The world needs a good Tube Preamp for $500.
Cheers
Bill
There are some nice headphone amps around $500 that can also be used as a pre. I have the balanced Little Dot VI that serves as both headphone amp and preamp, which works fabulously for both duties.
But I already have that! We need both! :)
The world already has an excellent integrated amp very near that price point: The NAD 326BEE, at $550.00.It has a separable pre/ and amp with external jumpers.
Edits: 05/17/12
But how much could it be if it threw out the preamp portion, I wonder? Maybe the power supply can be simplified, too, but then is the box and power transformer a big part of the budget in construction that must be there and cannot save much? I'm just wondering.
There are so many digital only systems now with digital processors like the DacMagic or a computer plus smaller DAC that forms a preamp in itself. Now I wonder if market conditions for the power amp only product will increase in demand. Those integrated amps seem set up to go obsolete for those going to hi rez digital only and not keeping records and CD's around. I made that switch by the reality of living in too small a space for a big system. Still sounds like high end audio to me, though. But I do a lot of mods from old expensive parts I have left over from the days of more affluence. Not a bad idea if working on only inexpensive separates if you know how.
I see a lot of entertainment establishments (like bars) now with computer background music systems, mostly mp3 though or iTunes. It's a huge space and labor saver.
Take it to the limit: No tangible power amp at all!
From an engineering standpoint the power-amp and speaker are really a logical subsystem anyway so it's a good opportunity to optimize cost and performance.
Regards, Rick
The new powered Paradigm speakers are nice. And they have 2x50 PER speaker. Those, and the DACMagic+ might be the basis of a terrific dorm system or an all digitial system for the home.
I have 3 of 4 inputs 'occupied' on mine:
Too much is never enough
I've become interested in near-field listening through the back door. My study amplifier died a couple of years ago so I dug out some horrible sounding powered speakers that came with a computer to use while the part was on order. Oddly enough I guess they "broke in" or I "broke down" and I still haven't fixed the amplifier despite having the new part. Although they don't sound as good as my Celestion 3's, I'm enjoying them and at this point I am not at all sure I want to go back. Maybe better near-field speakers would be a good bet.
I was pleased with the posts on them yesterday, apparently I'm not the only one this is happening to!
Rick
Umm, I can't seem to find them on their website.
What's the model #?
Thanks, Rick
This
http://www.paradigm.com/shift/products/powered-speakers/index.shtml
If you mean the powered Atoms....see provided link:
At 500$ / pair, add in a DACMagic+ with a good source(s) and there 'ya go. Insta-system.
You could bring the whole thing in for 1500$ and be 'forward' looking, to boot.
Too much is never enough
Ok...
They are in the running for worst website in the universe, thanks to both of you guys for the links.
Rick
Class D audio?
+1 on Class D Audio.
Gainclones are another option at lower power.
Even lower powered, look at the MiniWatt tube amp.
I have heard and really enyoyed all of these. The amp near this price point that I am most intrigued by is the Dayens Ampino.
Dayens and MiniWatt both have volume pots, but they are totally passive IIRC. Some folks have chosen to bypass them, others just run them wide-open or at a level that provides the most suitable gain for their system in combination with a preamp.
Mind-blowing, really: so much for so little.
~~~~~~~~~~~
... 99%'er
Have you tried tubes? Glad I did! If your handy you could rebuild a Dynaco ST-70 for that kind of money , maybe less. A zillion aftermarket boards out there if you don't want the stock one. You can use low cost easy to find tubes to replace the hard to find now expensive 7199 with socket adapters. Running in triode mode may appeal to you also. 35W/CH in UL mode and half in triode mode.Randy
Edits: 05/18/12 05/18/12
Actually I like to try a decent tube amp, say a Bob Latino ST70 or ST120. But tubes are a different sound; I might like the Dynaco but it won't be as transparent, resolved, or as harmonically accurate (as opposed to harmonically euphonic).
~~~~~~~~~~~
... 99%'er
So you haven't tried them. Not everything is true you read about tubes or SS for that matter. Some myths come out from listening to one with bad caps. off spec resistors and tired tubes etc,
Not necessarily a different sound, just easier to listen to for long periods. Just depends on the circuit as some can be hard to listen to or not that accurate.
For example a rebuilt Harman Kardon Citation II doesn't sound tubey, just very accurate without the SS negatives.
I just mentioned the Dynaco ST-70 as it was in your price range. Some prefer the vintage output transformers sonic wise and the whole amp can be found for a decent price ($250-350) if patient then cleaned up and rebuilt.
Research which board you want as there are a few new ones out there with CCS like Bob's supplier of boards one and Gregg from classic valve design. These boards follow the Mullard circuit and there is a board from Triode Electronics which follows the original Williamson style circuit using in production tubes.
Part of the reason for all the boards is the availability of the 7199 driver tube has been poor so very pricey now for even questionable ones.
You can adapt easier to find tubes if you want to keep the stock board. Probably some values of resistors should be changed to do it properly from what I've come across.
The beauty of the design is you can try different boards and tubes.
The Dynaco Mark III could be another affordable choice as many were built too. The stock board apparently isn't too bad, but there are a few after market Mullard circuit boards out there for it too.
Anyway the Dynaco's like many vintage tube amps can use more capacitance in the PS and the addition of chokes or better than stock ones in the case of the Dynaco's. This will improve the bass and get rid of any tubey sound.
After reading these forms perhaps a great compromise between power and sonics would be a class A PP tube amp with DHT tubes if one had the $ for the good tubes! You wouldn't need the super efficient speakers like practical & affordable SE amps require.
Hope that helps!
Randy
You have to remember the Miniwatt is a 2 watt amp. I have one to drive Lowther Medallions and it is great but it is unsuitable for 99% of the speakers out there.
Alan
Not the newer MiniWatt N3. It has over 50% more power! 3.5 Watts per channel.
(Yup, still only suitable for highly efficient speakers. Reviews and speaker specs will give an idea of what suitable speakers might be)
When available, a Marsh 400 sells for about that and so would the 200 and you cannot do better in a solid state amp.
I am, increasingly, on the skeptic side, when it comes to this hobby. On the one hand, let me first state that it is POSSIBLE for a difference to exist between A and B, and in some cases there may be a measurable difference. The only valid question is can you HEAR any difference? Dare you put yourself to a valid (blind) test? A large amount of this hobby is the psychological boost that one gets from owning X which is best, at least according to: the guy who sells it, your friends, and (almost never) proven by anything resembling an impartial test. Call me tin-eared, but I am (so to speak) very happy with my $500 power amp (actually <$300) and have the remaining $4500 or whatever to spend on other things that I enjoy in life, including other gizmos.
she just can't differentiate which one is better and why, like 99% audio people changing amps like a gloves.
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