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I've been wanting to try this integrated amp forever! The room setup is still far from ideal as I have speakers to move but this will be the comparison:
SYSTEM #1: Aesthetix Calypso Signature tube linestage, Bryston 7BSST2 600wpc monoblocks, and Thiel CS2.4 speakers.
SYSTEM #2: Rogue Cronus Magnum integrated amp with KT90 tubes rated at ~90wpc, and Tannoy Definition D500 speakers.
Both systems driven by WYRED4SOUND DAC2 & Mac Mini music server running uncompressed files ripped from my CD collection.
I ran some music through the Rogue and it sounds wonderful! But nothing has been optimized yet in terms of speaker placement. I just dragged the Tannoys out of the closet and placed them near the Thiels. I need to remove the Thiels and position the Tannoys on their own.
The messy room:
Rogue Cronus Magnum in front of the main system:
Rogue Cronus Magnum / KT90 Power tubes:
Follow Ups:
Thanks for the great write up! As a new Cronus Magnum owner myself, it's heartening to see two great write ups with accompanying tube recommendations on AA. It's been a great experience overall, and I'm very happy with the way the stock tubes run my Vandersteen 2ce Signature IIs. But I know there will be rolling down the road.
The Rogue Cronus Magnum arrived with JJ 12AX7 but I have a bunch of other 12AX7's to try. It also came with 3 12AU7. Can someone tell me who makes these 12AU7 tubes? Thanks!
I have two of the 12AU7 pictured to the Left. One is in the Left ch and the other is in the right ch. The 12AU7 pictured to the right is in the center location the amp:
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I agree with Mulveling, left tube: Sylvania; right tube: RCA cleartop.
I hardly an expert in this kind of thing, actually far from it, but the one on the left looks like a GE that I have. That green printing on it instantly jumped out at me. Could be a GE. Problem is, there was so much wheeling and dealing going on and cross labeling that it is hard for me to tell because I never did learn to comprehend the codes and etc. So, its probably a GE. or not.
roN
I used a 12AU7 I got from Ram Labs in my Cronus for the preamp tube. Used Mullard 12AX7s.
Opus 104
The one on the right must be an RCA cleartop - that's a very RCA style mica spacer (like in their 12BH7 too), the 12AU7 label is in a box (though Tung-Sol also did this), and it looks like a side-getter (though hard to confirm from that pic).
The left tube I cannot nail down since I don't have experience with it, but it looks like a 70's or later vintage; possibly Sylvania.
total mud.
Some of the worst amps that I've ever heard, totally recessed treble, and boomy through the lower mid range, slow, muddy, bass....
Guess that things have changed if you have their products. Good to see that they've either changed, or I just had a bad couple of days....
Cheers,
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
So a blanket statement like that is a bit silly.
I remember not being impressed some years ago with a Rogue integrated driving some Dunlavy SC-IIIs I was using at the time. I think it must have been a non-Magnum Chronos.
I had a 99 Magnum pre for a while and eventually gave up on it because I couldn't get rid of a 60-cycle hum.
However, I love my M-180 monoblocks. With the KT-120 output tubes they are positively orgasmic.
Indeed; for me, the switch from KT90 to KT120 made a HUGE improvement in my Rogue Apollo monoblocks. Then put some 12BH7 in place of the 12AU7 (as long as it can supply the extra heater draw), and also a good 5751 black plate in the 12AX7 slot. They're awesome.
Rogue's one component that doesn't require *any* tube changes to sound absolutely stunning is their Hera II preamp. I've underestimated that component in the past, and regretted it later. Certainly their finest piece of gear, in my experience.
Yeah I thought the same thing about their older amps and preamps. I haven't heard any of the Cronus stuff. Might be better.
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
A few years ago, I bought cronus on a whim. Blah.
It didn't do anything wrong, but it didn't do much right either. Tube swaps and tweaks helped, but ultimately, it was rather unsatisfying. After a couple of months, I took it out of my system.
Not my thing.
Jack
The Rogue Integrated is sounding pretty sweet here.
Digital source-PS Audio PWT/PWD
Analog source-Basis/Benz/EAR phono
Amp-Either Rogers High Fidelity EHF-100 (my best amp), Einstein Absolute Tune (w. Siemens 6922s), or Wyred4Sound STI-500, depending on my mood and such.
Speakers- Silverline Sonata IIII have other systems, but that's my main one. It does change periodically, except for the speakers.
JackPS. I have the plain vanilla cronus, not the magnum.
Edits: 03/09/12 03/09/12
I started rolling some power tubes in the Rogue and discovered that the KT90's (that work in the Magnum Integrated but not sure if they do in the standard Cronus) are more open and transparent vs some new EL34's that I have on hand. The KT90's sound very extended and "clear" but a little "thin" or "lean" in the mids and lower mids. That's why I tried the EL34's (and 6CA7EH) hoping for more midrange presence. The EL34s did the job but at the expense of transparency. I guess one might call it muddy or slightly veiled. And then I thought......
Why not use the 4 Ohm taps instead of the factory default 8 Ohm. What a difference! So everything I did with the tube rolling prior to this change has to be scratched. The KT90's remain transparent, clear, and extended but I gained better midrange, lower mids, and bass. The EL34s sound better than before but still a little muddy in comparison.
Now that I have what I believe to be the correct impedance tap on the Rogue to better suit my speakers, I can move forward with the tube rolling. However, the KT90s' are sounding pretty nice now.
Moral of the story: Play with the impedance taps on the amp before tube rolling. Should have been obvious but I was too anxious to try different tubes.
LOL. That's interesting.
The plain vanilla chronus won't take KT-90s, but will take KT-77s. That said, at the time I bought the amp, the KT-77s were a bit flaky and unreliable. I don't have a problem with EL-34s per se, they worked well in my Jadis DA-60. Don't forget to try different small signal tubes too.
Jack
The new Genelex KT-77 are said to be great. Haven't personally heard them yet but will probably end up buying a quad set this summer to try them out. I rolled out the stock tubes for new versions of Mullard EL-34's, 12ax7's, and went with the new version of Tung-Sol for the 12a7u's. Made a noticeable improvement even though the stock tubes were fine as is.
The reason I did not opt for the Magnum version, which got rave reviews is first I don't care for the name lol, but the real reason was that from what I had read the KT-90 tubes, though great, would not suit my personal taste, and as I'm not driving Maggies, I don't need the 90 watts per channel. I really can't say enough good things about the Cronus though. Worth every penny.
Out of sheer curiosity, would 75 watts be more than the bare minimum to drive Maggies to respectable sound quality? I am currently using Haydn Grands with a REL T-5 subwoofer which sounds effing great to me, just wondering about Maggies though. I have planar headphones (HiFi Man HE5-LE's) which I love too so was just wondering.
I'm not hearing what you may have heard in older Rogue gear. Of course the type and condition of the tubes probably have a lot to do with it too.
In this setup, I'm hearing a nicely extended and crisp treble, open and transparent midrange (could be a little richer sounding so I'll work on that with some tube rolling), and good tight bass. The lower mids and bass aren't as robust and chest pounding as my other setup but I wouldn't expect it to be.
Oh I just love eye candy...I'm an audio slut! And I got my eye on those Tannoy Definition D500's. Never seen those before! It all looks great, even the room...Thats a very nice man cave! You need to hang your sign..."No women shall enter this space!"....only then will such a nice listened room be complete!
Do you keep both speaker pairs side by side as seen in your photo even while playing one of them, or you move them away?
murali
My intent is to move the Thiel speakers out of the way and reposition the Tannoys. For the time being, they are both next to each other as you see in the photos.
Nice setup, Abe.
Contrary to comments from prior Inmate, I think this is perfect scene for an assignation with a lovely lady in the mancave -- provided she genuflects properly before the components! My girlfriend does.
Neal
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Obviously kidding. Looks cozy from your seat perspective. Seen several photos of the room over the years (Manleys, etc). What does the rest of the room look like?
A real pig sty:
From the back of the room looking forward:
From the front of the room looking to the back:
A bit messier "behind the scenes", eh? No matter, it still looks like a nice little retreat. And you only have to answer to yourself when it's messy, correct?
Yup, I've been hiding the mess from you all! Well, the wife is starting to notice the mess but I try to tell her it's the man cave. She's not buying it.
Yeah...I hear ya. Tell my wife women are not aloud all the time. She comes down, looks around, rolls her eyes, and back up stairs.
As a result of our relo from VA to TX my system now resides in a "media room" as opposed to our family room. The wife couldn't be happier. And she could care less what condition the room is in as she rarely sees it. Good thing, too, due to some treatments in the corners.
If only I had more free time to enjoy my semi-dedicated room (shared with my boys and their Wii/TV set up). Job, kids and chores have put a strangle-hold on free time utilization the past couple of years.
Do you have a second system upstairs in a shared living area? I kind of miss having my rig in the family room. Not only did it provide quality music throughout the downstairs living areas, it was also a topic of conversation on occasion. I enjoyed showing it off and discussing the hobby with friends/visitors. No one sees/hears it now unless I drag them upstairs and down the hall.
What's that on the bottom of the wall by the furniture? A pet door? :-)
----- Dan
"Where the hell's all the f***ing kangaroos?", Thelonious Monk in Australia, circa 1965, during drive from Sydney to Newcastle
nt
----- Dan
"Where the hell's all the f***ing kangaroos?", Thelonious Monk in Australia, circa 1965, during drive from Sydney to Newcastle
What's that little door thing to the left of the sofa? Is that where the cat comes in before she curls up beside those warm tubes and thinks about whether to use the Thiel or Tannoy scratching posts?
It's a doggie door so our vicious cocker can run inside before the foxes get him.
Like your leather sofa. What brand is it?
---------------------------
It's an Italian made sofa by Nicoletti that I got a long time ago when I was single. Wife hates it. I love it and won't depart with it so it lives down in the man cave.
'dragged' the Tannoy. I see two steps outside the opening. If it were brought in from the back, its a long way and over the nice carpet and a mat. Just curious!
That amp and the Tannoy look so adorable.
Cheers
Bill
Hello Everyone and thanks for participating and contributing to the question posed by my buddy, Slippers. He got this thread started on my behalf.
I've had the Rogue since late Jan of this year and do enjoy it but to my ears it's a tad warm. I want to try tube rolling and since this amp was my first foray into the world of tubes and am looking for some direction.
My R.C.M does have the KT90's (4), The JAN-Philips 5814-A (3 of AU7), and The JJ ECC83-S (2 of AX7). I love the low end and the top end is extended without being bright. I find the mids to be okay but would like a tad more texture. What I am most interested in is taking some of the warmth away while preserving the balance with a small gain in a more richly textured mid range.
It would be nice to add a little more 3D presentation if I can since I will be rolling I might as well go for the gold medal run.
My current speakers are book shelf monitors, System-Audio Aura 1 but I will be going to pick up some new speakers on Friday, Dali Ikon 2 mk2, with the idea to add a more holographic image to the presentation. For a source I am using Stello DA100 Signature DAC and Stello CDT 100 as a transport.
After reading all of the tube offerings at http://www.upscaleaudio.com/VacuumTubes/ I find myself wanting to order half of them. Any suggestions on where to start would be greatly appreciated.
To give you an idea as to what I find to be too warm...Marantz is too warm for me but I want more warmth than say a hybrid amp.
Thanks again for your input.
I have really liked the Psvane tubes (and recommend getting Class A from Grant Fidelity). The EL84s, 12AX7s and 6SN7s were the best I have had in my system.
The Philips 5814s are OK, and the JJ 12AX7s aren't very good. You can do better.
Switch out 2 of the 5814s and replace them with Amperex 7316s (59-60 Halo getter). Get rid of the JJs and try Raytheon 12AX7s (long black plates). That will cut the warmth, add detail and increase the soundstage and imaging considerably. Tubeworld has the Raytheons. The (good)7316s are getting harder to find these days.
Jack
Awesome!!! I have the non-magnum version Cronus and it's excellent! You should try it with the EL-34 tubes, the Cronus Magnum can use as you probably know EL 34's, KT77's and the KT 90's. It's sublime with the EL-34's, will try the KT-77's eventually!
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