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Ive noticed quite a few posts lately asking about good preamps, many tube based requests. I bought this preamp about a month ago, received it about a week ago, and first got around to listening to it now. I chose to wait before chiming in about it as I wanted to listen first. Usually a good idea :-) Well the wait is over….
I own and have listened to allot of great gear. And while I didn’t think I was missing out on anything major, I really only have 2 good tube preamps to compare my tastes with. While not really being on the hunt for a tube pre I couldn’t help but take notice to the amazing value everything at tubes4hifi has. Had I found tubes4hifi first before amassing quite a few tube amps, Id likely have an amp offering too. Anyway in reading about all of Roy’s various preamp mods, options and completed build offerings, the temptation really got the best of me. I thought, heck with it, only live once right. So I pulled the trigger on a completed SP12 with his PH12 phono option. Roy was VERY kind and accommodating in catering to my special requests. I wanted to spruce it up with any reasonable upgrades in the components. So I opted for best vol and sectors for the money. Roy pointed me towards goldpoint selectors and TKD vol pots. I also asked Mundorf Silver Oil caps be used. Honestly, Im kinda worried the s/o caps may not hold up well to the heat next to the tubes from what Ive read, but oh well. Ill enjoy em while I can and its not that hard to replace em. I also mentioned adding any kind of dampening and good feet to the pre, Roy did well on this too. I don’t want to go much further into the build description as I don’t think Id be doing it justice. Theres a reason I didn’t want to build it myself, Im no expert yet. Roy is!
So how bout the sound? Well, its what I was hoping it would be. Super detailed. Im getting it all in spades. The preamp hasn’t even been broken in I imagine and I don’t notice a hint of grain or harsh. No overly forward sound or that overdriven fatiguing aspect that Ive heard in other gear Ive owned. One thing I liked about this design was its tube rectified power but also having regulated filaments. Something Ive not heard before in other pres I own. It really has authority and slam when needed. Never cries when asked to deliver and be loud! While I cant speak for the sound of the usual alps vol pot, I can say this TKD seems to have PERFECT balance from silent to loud. Allot of my vintage stuff and some new stuff seems to not do near as well in the low volume adjustment areas. The pot seems to have perfect range and tone. And just feels really pro. Again its only in break-in stages and just sounds perfect. Im still using the stock JJ 12au7s Roy tossed in. I also bought NOS RCA cleartops from Roy to use. I really don’t feel Im missing anything right now, so cant wait till I hear the RCAs too. So far Im gonna have to agree that these Silver and Oil caps really sound amazingly detailed from top to bottom. Just amazingly airy detail. The physical build is also nothing short of stout. Nice thick 4mm face and 3mm rear. Sturdy as hell all around. Right now Im using the preamp with a Don Allen CD player, Don Allen 6550 push pull mono amps, stock JBL 4430 speakers. Im also using a home made quad core windows 7 computer with the asus Xonar essence STX sound card. This pre has really revealed the limits of my rough draft 192kbps rips of music, damn…. Was just listening to Neil Young live at Massey Hall 71, great CD with great acoustics and recording. Sounded breathtaking! Now Im listening to Mumford and Sons sigh no more. Not near as perfect a recording but great music no less. FF 15 mins… just compelled to try Grateful Dead, Reckoning, the live acoustic set. FF another 15 mins… Stones Exile on Main St with bonus tracks, Pass the Wine sounds F-in great! Last for now Hendrix Axis Bold as Love, can this ever not sound good?
So am I happy, you bet! As of now still haven’t had a chance to test the phono but Id be pretty damn surprised to find its anywhere south of the rest of the preamp’s quality. Dealing with confined gear area now. Give it a little time and Ill have some input on the phono.
Cant say enough about how great Roy is. Clearly knows his stuff. There were a few bumps in the road from Roy trying to accommodate my requests. But he handled it all like a professional and gentleman. Everything worked out as planned in the end.
Hope everyone enjoys the review. Pics courtesy of Roy on tubes4hifi’s site.
Thanks much
Dave
Follow Ups:
I purchased an SP12 preamp in the spring and it sounded good, while it lasted. Mine was prebuilt for me.
After having it a while, I started to get a little noise from the left channel. I was thinking about taking it to the shop to get it diagnosed, but never did. I turned it on one morning and got REALLY LOUD noises from my speakers so I quickly turned it off and there was smoke coming from the preamp...
I have some other equipment hooked up now, and the preamp has been sitting there all summer as I don't know if I want to get it fixed. The standard volume control is unbelieveably clunky and going from a mid-setting and increasing it one notch increased the volume way more than the previous increases would suggest it should (I think there was an error in the build), the base is way better using my solid state integrated, and I don't think the SP12 has a CSA approval or any other government safety rating. After seeing the smoke in my living room I don't think I would trust it again.
Hi, it's always nice to see reviews of manufacturers I'm not aware of. I noticed you have Don Allen's amp and modded CDP. Did you consider his preamp before you decided to get the SP12? Owners of his Gen 2 preamp see to go gaga over it, preferring it to the $5000+ preamps they've owned before. But no remote for the sake of sonic purity. I'm in the marked for a tube preamp, but finding a good reasonably priced with remote is difficult.
I am looking for a very good SET amplifier assembler,can anybody give the contact details of Don Allen.thanks
Anything to report on the phono stage?
Yeah no joke. Funny you would ask this now. Yesterday I went over to a house that had hundreds of vintage, most foreign pressings of classical. I was so taken back and overwhelmed I asked to come back the next night when I had more time. It was a odd and rare find. Just unbelievable stuff and all at 25c a pop. I really gotta keep control though as Ive amassed far too many already. I want to cut my personal keeps to about 1/3 what I have now. You can only listen to so much in a lifetime :-) But damn its hard at times.
I plan to post some of the interesting finds in vinyl within the next day or so.
But yes I should have some info within a week or so on the phono section.
Dave
Presently I use a remoted controlled passive.
___
Fearnor's Stereo Configuration
I really miss it at times. My only reason was wanting the most pure, accurate sound. Plus, as someone who works on technology for a living... I have nearly no trust in it, desire for it beyond the necessities, and really like the minimalist approach to stuff at times. But all humor aside, it really is nice to have. I kinda have this fantasy that some company will come along with some super advanced, kinks worked out, motor box that could sit atop these kinds of amps and turn the knob via a remote. I think Ive already seen such items. But thats what I would like. For now Im mobile enough where its not a cant live without feature.
On the topic, Roy was explaining to me a new computerized volume control he has in the works for remote control, that I believe will be on his site as a option in the future. Will see.
Thanks much
Dave
hello tube fans,
it's been a long time since I've been on this site, but I heard someone posted a review on my work, and I need to update the years old info on my website.
I DO sell tube preamps (everyday!) and I do CUSTOM work all the time.
Probably do 3 or 4 custom jobs besides all the usual stuff every month.
That's good to know!
"Lock up when you're done and don't touch the piano."
-Greg House
Thats a beautiful well executed preamp and I have used lots of Roy's boards and kits in dynaco and heath projects and they are always first rate for the money.You have a line stage and phono! Thats is a hell of a deal because very places offer a good phono/linestage preamp for less than 3 to 4 grand it seems.
Diversity of opinions on any one technical subject,almost always causes confusion for the listener.
Really it has it all from what I can tell... For the price especially.
Just loving it the more I hear it.
So you forgive me for missing that Fisher SA-100 yet ? :-)
Talk to ya soon
Dave
I'm surprised you had a pot installed for the main volume control and not a stepped attenuator ... on the site the photos for their SP8 preamp show a stepped attenuator, I would have thought something like that would be superior to any pot.
BTW are the ARC like designations, SP9, etc. just coincidence or do the circuit designs "borrow" in some way from ARC? Just curious.
Dr. Who, A Christmas Carol, "Like I say, Lucky"
Ive always preferred pots personally. Thats just me. Had a Vac tube pre some years ago with separate left and right vol controls that were stepped. Just seemed in certain moments that stepped aspect rubbed my anal retentiveness the wrong way at times :-) And I REALLY hated having left and right vol controls. Also had a TVC stepped vol control that drove me nuts after a while too. Just never was for me seemed. And on the notion of quality... All I can say is Im feeling nothing lost in the clarity of this gem so far. These TKD pots seem to get great reviews all over from the searching I did. Just loving it.
Im in absolutely NO position of any kind to say where Roy culminates his ideas from. All I will say is in talking with him, I dont think he finds inspiration from ARC.
BTW for what its worth. When researching all the other tube preamps out there... Comparing cost, design, build quality so on... I really admired the Blue Circle stuff ALLOT! Really looks like some impressive stuff from a manufacturer who comes across as caring about all aspects of the work. Real music lovers stuff. Ill bet your real happy with it and love the sound. Was out of my price range overall and didnt wanna go down the used road unless I had to.
All the best
Dave
That's interesting, I have preamp with separate left and right stepped attenuators, just like the VAC you had, and it really works for me, in fact I'm convinced that I'll never own another doesn't do volume/balance in that fashion.
It only goes to shown how what works for one user doesn't for another. I have a good buddy who likewise didn't live well with the left/right volumne controls format, he would always obsess over making certain they were both set the same, me, I let me ear set the balance and don't give a hoot if they are the same or not. Case in fact in my room I find that the left control typically ends up two notches beyond the right, for most recordings anyway, and it just doesn't bother me ... it would drive my buddy to distraction. LOL
Dr. Who, A Christmas Carol, "Like I say, Lucky"
The TKD is really something special and doesn't go pop-pop-pop or even tick-tick-tick.
***No records were harmed on a Technics 12xx Series during these listening sessions***
nt
Thanks man. I hope I made a good decision. Seems so thus far. This pot is great.
BTW thats some great work you did on the 45 amp! Breathtaking. I wish I had your confidence to go DIY already. Im sure I could but still haven't worked up the balls yet... sigh... From what Ive read on other sites, seems the SP-12 circuit is similar to that Aikido pre you use too. Again just going off passing info I picked up. Its great by my ears :-)
Thanks much
Dave
According to what's written on the website they are no longer doing custom builds, just mods on existing equipment.
On their site they still state they are doing completed builds for the kits they sell at a stated labor cost. Granted they dont say in detail on the product pages that they will make upgrades to the design. I guess I just assumed if I wasnt overly obtuse when working with them they would be reasonable with me too. Seems to have worked.
Plus that statement in the Service Mods sections was the same when I emailed Roy who emailed me back and we chatted on the phone and he agreed to do my build with add ons. I just thought that service mods part pertained to ground up scratch work. But thats just how I interpreted it. Everyone sees things their own way. I understand that.
I guess I can see where you got the idea they might not be doing what Roy did for me. But I dont get the "point of your review" comment?
No biggie though. Not trying to start a debate here. Roy did what he did for me and was very nice about it. And from what we talked about during emails he sounds like hes cool about it too.
So yeah, hope that makes things clearer?
Thanks
Dave
that nowhere on the site is there mention of doing the kind of mods to their listed offerings that you reviewed. In fact, they say the exact opposite.
Assuming what they say on the site is correct - and why would anyone assume the site wrongly states something? - you'd be reviewing a pre that other inmates could not purchase. As I said, to what end (unless maybe you posted the schematic on DIY/Tubes)?
"We are willing to do a LIMITED amount of service work for our existing customers. We are NO LONGER doing special projects or preamp builds, only repairs on existing amps."
I don't see how anyone could interpret that quote from the site differently than I did.
Anyway, glad you're finding that the pre is excellent, and from what you said maybe someone else in fact *could* buy one. But if they're offering custom build work/upgrades to their designs, seems to me they should say so instead of explicitly saying they do not.
Happy listening!
Hi
I'm doing a little at a time. I bought the 12SE board kit.I am looking to use Mills resistors and probably Solen caps. Does any one think this will add to the quality of the amp.I can't afford Mundorfs.
Larry
Seems we just think and see things differently. Thats fine, as things will always be that way in life with groups of people.
I try to not take that literalist approach to allot of things. Especially things I read on many web sites. Yeah I get it, ONLY in the service / mods area they state that. And yes I agree they should better explain it. You and I interpreted that area differently it would seem. However, Id venture to guess many who go to their site to possibly buy things never even bother to read that area. But that would depend on the intention of the viewer. I like yourself typically try and read it all as Im overly inquisitive.
The thing I don’t understand is how it seems so unbelievable to you that a small grassroots kind of company would make such changes to an order? Roy is a one man show. In working with him he seems to order allot of stuff on a per build basis. And again, in ALL other areas of the site, they break down costs for all sorts of different kit configs and have set labor rates to buy assembled. Its not like he changed the circuit for me. He only upgraded small parts. Now granted maybe I went overboard in giving him a 2011 Porsche to upgrade $250 worth of parts for my purchase. But Im thinking he would do it for another buyer if asked politely.
So yeah, I go through life “trying” to maintain a glass half full attitude. And I still don’t understand your point of review comment. People here review all kinds of small batch products that many will never have a chance to own. People also review rebuilt vintage gear and or modded vintage gear all the time. Maybe you don’t want to hear about such products but I love reading about that stuff. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest that I may never own something. Its still fun to me to hear and learn from it.
Yeah Im just not that hard lined I guess. Happy to continue to be. Seems to be working so far. The pre is great.
Have a good one
Dave
Yup, that's what it says.
A shame, looks like nice gear.
"Lock up when you're done and don't touch the piano."
-Greg House
NT
'You trouble me like women'.
"Lock up when you're done and don't touch the piano."
-Greg House
how I picked up a great Peter Otoole movie Id never seen before at goodwill on DVD, Lion in Winter. Just amazing acting by Peter and Katharine. Never seen it before and picked it up on a whim as I always do with the awesome selection I find at all my thrift stores here.
Im just as big a movie nerd as I am a music nerd.
No lie, today I picked up a blu-ray of Steve McQueen in The Getaway at my local Salvation Army for $1. Swear to god $1. At the time I didnt even know Sam Peckinpah directed it. Just love The Wild Bunch, Straw Dogs and Cross of Iron. So Im all pumped to watch this!
All the best man
Dave
Dave
Peckinpah: "Bring me the head of Alfredo Garcia" + "The Deadly Companions" are great films; O'Toole: "Rogue Male" + "Murphys War"
GW
Havent seen any of those. Its near impossible to play catch up on movies for me these days. Lately its a real moment when I can sit down and watch a full film I havnt seen before.
I just overheard a re-airing of Terry Gross interviewing Peter Falk on the way home from work days ago. Great interview. Reminded me I HAVE to watch some of John Cassavetes directorial work ASAP.
Was really sad to see Sidney Lumet pass this year. Without question one of the greatest directors ever IMO.
Thanks much
Dave
You're welcome, Cassavetes I love; but he's a bit hit + miss. The Hits include: "Nicky + Mikey", "Husbands",( Falk in these two ) "Killing of a Chinese Bookie" + "Gloria" while "Opening Night", "a Woman under the Influence" ( Falk again )+ "Minnie + Moskovitz" are pretty self-indulgent, tho' watchable if you have the patience. He's got to be cut slack as the *only* independent American filmmaker of his timeI've made an effort to catch up on films, I've watched over 1500 in the last 2 years + covered not a fraction of what is out there, and with a considerable bias to "new" films
If it's any consolation, keeping up with new books in publication + new music is impossible too...
GW
Edits: 07/01/11
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