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In Reply to: Mofi debacle even makes the Washington Post posted by Rick W on August 5, 2022 at 13:35:46:
Oh, the blasphomy of uttering such words. But it's the truth. He is wrong about digital stages affecting the sound. How can that be though? He is the great Bernie Grundman!!! How can I, a mere audiophile question the opinion of such a master...mastering engineer?It's quite simple. Even experts can have opinions that are simply wrong. And this isn't my opinion vs his opinion. There are other mastering engineers and other experts in audio that don't agree with his opinion. But that would be their opinion. And this is where we have to understand human nature, logical fallacies and why science is so important.
When we are talking about objective reality there are no *authorities.* There are experts and there are expert opinions and expert opinions often disagree. Which means experts are often wrong in their opinions. But there is only one authority. Evidence. And when it comes to what we actually hear the gold standard for evidence is the use of blind protocols, level matching and quick switching. And when it comes to listening comparisons using those protocols hi res digital has proven to be transparent over and over and over again.
Also when it comes to our determination of objective reality cross correlation is an important factor. That is because it offers a high level of statistical certitude. For insatnce the cross correlation in biological evolution between the fossil record, radiometric dating and genetic coding. They all paint the same picture. That would be an astronomically unlikely coicidence and as such acts as powerful statistical evidence that life evolved. As it pertains to hi res digital audio we have the cross correlation of the measured distortions of hi res digital audio and the known and well scientifically established thresholds of human hearing. It gives us the same conclusion as do all those bias controlled level matched quick switching listening tests. Then we can pile on null tests that have been done and wrought the same conclusions. So the odds of all of those things giving us the same eroneous conclusions are pretty slim. Veeeeerrrry slim. And what is the evidence on the other side. Anecdotal non controlled listening experiences.
And for that we have a perfectly simple explination as to why people think they hear differences in audio where none exist. Bias effects and steered focus that always happens when you don't use the correct protocols. It is not only a clear and reasonable explination for why people hear differences where none exist it is quite literally the expected outcome of such casual listening experiences.
I think it's worth remembering what else the article mentions. "Shane Buettner, owner of Intervention Records, another company in the reissue business, defended MoFi on the popular message board moderated by mastering engineer Steve Hoffman. He remembered running into one of the company's engineers at a recording studio working with a master tape. "I know their process and it's legit," he wrote. Michael Fremer, the dean of audiophile writing, was less measured. He slammed Esposito for irresponsibly spreading rumors and said his own unnamed source told him the record store owner was wrong."A lot of people were in denial for a brief period that there was that digital step. Some of them "experts." All of them people who had listened to and thought very highly of MoFi's records that unbeknownst to them had this digital step.
And I still think this is what has gotten under the skin of the audiophile community that had bought into the myth of analog superitority and digital degradation to an audio signal. Their reality, their financial investment, their emotional investment and the time they have invested into this belief has been put to death and they are going through the classic stages of grief, 1. denial 2. anger 3. bargaining. 4. depression. And various said audiophiles seem to stop at one step or the other.
Edits: 08/06/22
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Follow Ups
- Bernie Grundman is wrong - Analog Scott 23:28:21 08/05/22 (37)
- Don't you mean subjective reality? - checch 15:42:54 08/08/22 (0)
- Eye of Providence - Goober58 10:07:04 08/07/22 (0)
- you missed the point entirely - beach cruiser 20:33:10 08/06/22 (1)
- On the contrary, you missed **my* point entirely - Analog Scott 23:27:20 08/06/22 (0)
- Have you listened to/compared original all analog LP's vs. the Mofi LP's made from digital copies? nt - Rick W 09:38:33 08/06/22 (13)
- Yes! But so what? - Analog Scott 10:00:34 08/06/22 (12)
- Scott, not sure if was here or on another forum but..... - Rick W 11:05:59 08/06/22 (3)
- I own many and have done numerous comparisons. Let me explain "so what?" - Analog Scott 11:15:25 08/06/22 (2)
- RE: I own many and have done numerous comparisons. Let me explain "so what?" - Rick W 11:52:06 08/06/22 (1)
- I enjoyed the read, because I was unaware that Freemer screwed up again. - beach cruiser 21:02:29 08/06/22 (0)
- RE: Yes! But so what? - SoundMann 10:50:07 08/06/22 (1)
- Yes nt - Analog Scott 11:05:38 08/06/22 (0)
- RE: Yes! But so what? - ecl876 10:27:07 08/06/22 (5)
- Basically I agree. - Rick W 10:56:43 08/06/22 (1)
- RE: Basically I agree. - ecl876 13:32:00 08/06/22 (0)
- RE: Yes! But so what? - Analog Scott 10:43:01 08/06/22 (2)
- some have reason to be cranked about this moral question, not me - beach cruiser 21:31:30 08/06/22 (1)
- RE: some have reason to be cranked about this moral question, not me - Analog Scott 23:38:28 08/06/22 (0)
- RE: Bernie Grundman is wrong - SoundMann 09:37:58 08/06/22 (16)
- RE: Bernie Grundman is wrong - Analog Scott 11:07:57 08/06/22 (15)
- RE: Bernie Grundman is wrong - SoundMann 11:27:14 08/06/22 (14)
- RE: Bernie Grundman is wrong - Analog Scott 12:03:32 08/06/22 (13)
- RE: Bernie Grundman is wrong - SoundMann 12:52:15 08/06/22 (12)
- RE: Bernie Grundman is wrong - Analog Scott 13:47:09 08/06/22 (11)
- RE: Bernie Grundman is wrong - SoundMann 18:23:39 08/06/22 (0)
- to wit, ear training of some sort is vital - Story 14:16:38 08/06/22 (9)
- RE: to wit, ear training of some sort is vital - Analog Scott 14:32:06 08/06/22 (8)
- RE: to wit, ear training of some sort is vital - Tre' 19:02:37 08/06/22 (6)
- I do most of my comparisons of different masterings under blind conditions - Analog Scott 23:50:09 08/06/22 (5)
- Thanks but.... - Tre' 07:09:46 08/07/22 (4)
- RE: Thanks but.... - Analog Scott 08:41:18 08/07/22 (2)
- RE: Thanks but.... - Tre' 11:25:54 08/07/22 (1)
- RE: Thanks but.... - Analog Scott 12:53:08 08/07/22 (0)
- RE: Thanks but.... - Don Reid 08:26:19 08/07/22 (0)
- RE: to wit, ear training of some sort is vital - Story 14:43:44 08/06/22 (0)
- Bernie may very well be wrong but he's not purposefully lying as MOFI did. nt - hcman 23:55:08 08/05/22 (1)
- of course he isn't lying. He also didn't commit genocide like Hitler. I wasn't comparing him to Mofi - Analog Scott 02:42:49 08/06/22 (0)