In Reply to: RE: This is why the live reference, attending live concerts, is paramount. posted by Todd Krieger on October 20, 2010 at 22:04:49:
>It’s not so much the “sound field” that is of benefit from the live reference, but training the listener on timbral and dynamic characteristics of the real thing. A definitive reference that helps one migrate toward that sonic ideal with his home sound reproduction.>
Meyer shows frequency response measured at different locations in the hall for celli and first and second violins. Takatsu shows IACC (interaural cross-correlation coefficient) at various location in the hall.
The former relates to timbre, the latter to soundstage.
It would appear that also parameters such as clarity (C80) and lateral energy fraction are affected.
http://www.concerthalls.unomaha.edu/discussion/clarity.htm
http://www.concerthalls.unomaha.edu/discussion/spacious.htm
>Or in other words, if one hears an oboe on a recording, how would he know whether it sounded like how it was supposed to if he had never heard an oboe in the flesh?>
Even if you know how the real instrument sounds, the recorded sound reproduced via loudspeakers will sound different because of the very different radiation behaviour:
[1] Caussé et al., “Perceptual evaluation of a programmable radiation pattern loudspeaker simulating a real instrument”, 127th Meeting of the Acoustical Society of America 1994
[2] Caussé et al., Radiation of musical instruments and improvement of the sound diffusion techniques for synthesized, recorded or amplified sounds”, ICMC Proceedings 1995, p.359
[3] Misdariis et al., “Perceptual effects of radiation control with a multi-loudspeaker device”, Acoustics ’08, Paris, France
[4] Otondo et al., “Perceived influence of changes in musical instrument directivity representation”, Proceedings of the Stockholm Music Acoustics Conference, 6.-9. August 2003 (SMAC 03), Stockholm, Sweden
Once you realize these fundamental shortcomings of 2-channel stereo and the fundamental shortcomings of the usefulness of live concert hall experience and sound of musical instruments as reference, you realize that one should go to concerts for the pleasure of attending the concert rather than using the concert to train one's ears. YMMV, as usual.
Klaus
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Follow Ups
- RE: This is why the live reference, attending live concerts, is paramount. - KlausR. 01:46:47 10/21/10 (19)
- Measurements are not equivalent to perception - Tony Lauck 17:31:45 10/22/10 (18)
- RE: Measurements are not equivalent to perception - KlausR. 23:00:32 10/23/10 (17)
- RE: Measurements are not equivalent to perception - josh358 12:50:53 10/24/10 (4)
- RE: Measurements are not equivalent to perception - KlausR. 07:44:35 10/25/10 (3)
- RE: Measurements are not equivalent to perception - josh358 09:31:29 10/25/10 (2)
- RE: Measurements are not equivalent to perception - KlausR. 01:40:24 10/26/10 (1)
- RE: Measurements are not equivalent to perception - josh358 05:36:29 10/26/10 (0)
- Recording orchestras - KlausR. 07:25:08 10/26/10 (0)
- RE: Recording orchestras - josh358 09:17:31 10/26/10 (0)
- RE: Recording orchestras - Ted Smith 09:48:12 10/26/10 (0)
- RE: Recording orchestras - josh358 11:53:46 10/26/10 (0)
- Very interesting, Klaus... - genungo 01:52:48 10/24/10 (11)
- RE: Very interesting, Klaus... - josh358 12:56:12 10/24/10 (0)
- RE: Orchestral-sized events are the worst "live reference" - KlausR. 06:01:36 10/24/10 (9)
- RE: Orchestral-sized events are the worst "live reference" - josh358 12:30:00 10/24/10 (3)
- RE: Toole's theory - KlausR. 07:29:18 10/25/10 (2)
- RE: Toole's theory - josh358 08:29:12 10/25/10 (1)
- RE: it isn't possible to make a loudspeaker ... at that price range - KlausR. 02:34:59 10/26/10 (0)
- RE: it isn't possible to make a loudspeaker ... at that price range - josh358 12:08:02 10/26/10 (0)
- RE: Orchestral-sized events are the worst "live reference" - Tony Lauck 11:15:09 10/24/10 (0)
- Radiation behaviour and personal preferences - genungo 07:22:16 10/24/10 (3)
- RE: different types of loudspeakers specialize in different types of radiation patterns - KlausR. 08:36:36 10/24/10 (2)
- "Radiation patterns of loudspeakers and musical instruments have absolutely nothing in common." - genungo 09:40:44 10/24/10 (1)
- RE: "Radiation patterns of loudspeakers and musical instruments have absolutely nothing in common." - josh358 12:38:52 10/24/10 (0)