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Sorry to be beating the dead horse, but I thought that perhaps some people might not be aware of this policy they have. I paid a seller $10 beyond the shipping to insure an item for its full value. I have since discovered that the seller did not purchase any insure at all. I attempted to filed a complaint through Paypal, where I was routed by E-bay; only to discover after going through their dog and pony show, that they don't consider this an actionable offense because I received the item. Some how I find this incredible, though I am not surprised."Some men rob you with a gun, some rob you with a fountain pen" W. W. Guthrie
Follow Ups:
Perhaps you did this already, but did you contact the seller and ask for a refund of the insurance? As a seller, I give buyers the option of insuring their purchase. Because very few of my buyers actually purchase it, I've inadvertently forgot to include insurance on three occasions. The best thing I try to do upon discovering a lapse like that is to contact the seller, tell him I forgot to include insurance, and use Paypal to give a refund for the insurance.Although there are plenty of dishonest people out there, this might be an innocent oversight. Then again, I freely acknowledge I don't know the whole story.
The auction was for a new 30GB Ipod that I bought for my daughter. I paid the guy the same day the auction ended, after asking him the cost of insurance, and if he would sent it directly to my daughter. He said the insurance was $10, and agreed to ship it to her. When I paid him via Paypal I added the $10 and in the box for additional notes, I included my daughters address, as well as stated that I had included the money for insurance. He claimed that he would ship within 2 days of the receipt of payment, and the method that was listed was 1st class mail. At the bottom of the auction in shipping, he listed USPS 1st class, Express mail USPS, UPS ground as options. My thought was that USPS was the primary as that was listed at the top. I contacted him about the package after a week and was informed that it was coming by UPS to me. It was delivered on April 7, so clearly it was not shipped within 2 days of payment(guy lives in Minnesota, I live in Florida, daughter is in Virginia). I gave him a neutral feedback saying that at least the item was accurately described. He gave me a neutral which in essence was a negative saying I had paid promptly, but had wanted additional insurance with out communication or payment. The word logic does not exist for this guy; how would he have known I wanted the insurance if I did not communicate that fact. I pointed this out, and all he can do is lecture me on responsibility and politeness. He finally agreed to refund the $10. He claims to have sent me numerous e-mails asking for my address; I have received none. He rambles on in the Paypal resolution comments about how I will not cooperate. I have explained multiple times how to access the transaction detail in Paypal; explained that he can process it through Paypal; sent him a copy of the transaction detail which has my home address. Still all I get are lectures. I have to believe I am perhaps dealing with someone that is elderly, which would explain a lot, although not why he had the Ipod. This has been mind numbing. I would state to all the people who have responded to this thread, that assumptions about a sellers responsibility to the buyer are worthless, and I cannot believe anyone living in the USA would believe they are. If it is not specifically spelled out in writing it does not exist. An attorney once told me that a contact is the framework we use to sue each other, and every point in the contract is relative. If it is not in the contact, don't even bring it up. So basically you cannot assume anything, period. Sorry for the long reply.
UPS covers insurance up to $100, $1.20 up to $300, and .40 per $100 after that.
I offer insurance with all my auctions, some I self insure if the final price is less than $250 (that is my comfort level for cash out of my pocket), if it is more than $250 and the person who made the purchase decides they want insurance I purchase it from the shipping company.I have had a couple items that I have for less than $250 that got lost that I had to make good for the person who won the auction, one of the items made it back to me about 6 months later the other is still floating around out there. I have one big ticket item that was lost by the shipper where the buyer had insurance, that was about 6 months ago and we (the shiper and the shipee have both had to make statements to UPS) are still fighting it out with the company (UPS). But I refunded the buyer his money and hope to get it back from UPS some year.
Jeff
I always paid the insurance myself (as a seller), for a few bucks it was worth it to be able to give folks their $$ back if it got screwed-up or lost in shipping.
The seller by accepting the money for insurance has in fact become the insurance company ( self insured ).. The fact that he did not spread the risk to another company is not illegal. By not telling the buyer that he (seller) was the insurer is not illegal, a little under handed, but if he paid off if the item was lost or damaged he is covered. Iam sure that by being the insurance company he has increased his profit, and has to look at that against any possible losses.
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nt
Some sellers self-insure. They keep all of the money that they collect for insurance and then when they have an issue they resolve it themselves. Assuming the person is honest, this will make him a few extra bucks and get your issue resolved more promptly. A win-win situation, again, assuming the seller is honest.
You paid for insurance right? You got the item so what's the problem. We've got to assume if the item was lost or damaged the seller would have taken care of you. You paid for piece of mind - don't see any reason for you to file a claim against the seller.Which is kind of funny as IMO the seller should do that whether or not the buyer pays for insurance or not. Sellers should be prepared to eat the whole cost if they are not buying insurance because the buyer should expect to recieve the item and recieve it as described. I don't think any buyer should buy from sellers who don't guarantee items to arrive and arrive in the condition described or offer insurance against loss as well guarantee proper secure packaging.
If the seller wants the buyer to pay for insurance that's just a detail of the transaction.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
No, the buyer paid for insurance, which he DID not get.That, in effect, means that the seller ripped him off on shipping.
Whether the item arrived damaged or not or necessitated an insurance claim is IRRELEVANT.
The seller took the buyer's money, but did NOT provide the service promised. Period.
And given his dishonesty, I would not be surprised if he DIDN'T underwrite the item had it been damaged.
There's no loss whatsoever to the buyer. I have to assume the seller took the money and assumed the risk himself.What troubles me with insurance is that I believe it's the sellers risk in the first place. But a seller can charge whatever he wants for insurance and require the buyer to pay - if they buyer doesn't want to pay he should buy elsewhere. I can't imagine any buyer buying anything of value unless it's guaranteed to arrive and arrive as described. I wouldn't buy anything from a seller who denies this responsibility from the outset - however I might consider paying "insurance" to guarantee it.
Why would it matter to a buyer who is "insuring" the delivery - all that matters is the guarantee and the guarantee being honored.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
"The seller took the buyer's money, but did NOT provide the service promised. Period"Pretty damn simple isn't it!
The OP should have published the deadbeat seller's eBay memeber Id as a service so that others can avoid.
No Guru, No Method, No Teacher
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were the buyer to opt out of (paying for) insurance I guess we could say he (buyer) is underwriting the risk (of shipping damage) himself.This doesn't appear to be the case here, in fact if the facts are straight then what we have here is simple petty theft!
thus taking on the risk of the item arriving in good condition. I would not consider a transaction complete until I had received the item in the condition it was described as.Regards,
is steer clear of eBay, AudiogoN, etc., because I'm afraid you'd be immensely dissatisfied with the common practices for the vast majority of transactions, e.g. buyer pays *then* seller ships, seller assumes no responsible for lost in transit, etc.It's a *Buyer Beware* market, and the prudent buyer will insist upon shipping insurance. Moreover bear in mind that there are no guarantees, for example if the shipping agent determines damage due to incompetence packaging a insurance claim may be denied and the buyer will have little recourse but attempt compensation from the (likely derelict) seller.
Every purchase I make over say $20 or so is guaranteed to arrive and to arrive in the condition described. The seller must at a minimum guarantee adequete packaging to support an insurance claim if the item is damaged, must allow me to purchase insurance for loss, and guarantee me that the item will work as described.If not I will not bid. I buy plenty of stuff on eBay and on Audiogon.
I've had some issues but since everyone's responsibility was clearly defined and understood at the outset there was never any real problems. This is not to say I've been able to reach a clear understanding at the outset on every item I wanted to buy - in general every seller who understood has agreed. However some sellers are incapable of understanding or pretend to be and I just avoid them. And talking to others around here I believe some sellers just would not agree to my conditions - though I've not run across one of them yet.
Gonna trade Negatives for the $$$ to insure a $20.00 purchase?
I've completed over 150 transactions on ebay, and only one time did I have an issue (and it wasn't a big deal in the end). I must be living right.
I did just receive a batch of LPs from Mosaic that I thought were poorly packaged (even were it a private sale the packing would rate as a poor job) but they survived so I guess I'm just damn lucky as well!
No Guru, No Method, No Teacher
Agree 100% and I am dissatisfied with the "typcial" structure of transactions. I also agree that "prudent buyers" should insist on insurance. I just don't think they should represent themselves as the purchaser of the insurance even if this adds cost to the item. Seller purchased insurance, then if push comes to shove a good faith contractual obligation can be demonstrated on the seller to deliver the item in good condition. Also seller responsible for filling claim as his insuring his item delivered whole.Of course this doesn't even begin to address a host of scams of selling broken items and then scamming the insurance. Best, bet use the feedback options, as limiting as they are, to try and make the best informed decision on which buyers to use.
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that is make sense .
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