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In Reply to: Best phono stage ever? posted by SnaggS on May 16, 2007 at 06:39:48:
...stating a specific phono stage (as -- except for jweiss below -- not many people can state that one is best as a 'fact'), i would posit that the following things could likely improve your phono experience:1) minimize # of connections/cables. as patrick A (/j harris) writes, below, an extremely high-quality, built-in phono stage eliminates a set of cables. that said, it does have the source switches.
2) if you can do without it, get a phono stage that is phono only (takes in an MC or MM-level input and outputs a line-level signal, with no switches in the signal path). run this direct to your amp. it does one better than #1, above.
this is not feasible for everyone, but if you mainly listen to vinyl, then it's not a big deal to, every now and again, physically switch cables from the amp to the source you wish to use.
disclosure: i do this -- but i listen to vinyl >95% of the time -- maybe i listen to a cd every month or so. more important is the number of sources you listen to in any given session. if you tend to jump between vinyl & another source, this doesn't work so well. if you listen to, say, all CD one day and all vinyl the next then this solution works pretty well.
also, if you simply must keep your current linestage, you can still go the above route -- although you'll now have an extra box.
if you tell us your budget we may be able to provide some direction to guide you to a number of products that are very good in that range.
Follow Ups:
Analog Fan- don't you think its about time, given your daily outpouring of advice, that you tell us, for example, what YOU use as a phono stage? Would'nt that be more helpful to everyone here, and illuiminating, than your present, disingenous stance? It seems like everyone else who has posted in this thread has their whole system up and listed, and we can see, for example, what mikel or interstage tranny use for preamps, tt, speakers, etc. My system is listed. Just not yours. Because for some reason you are too shy or embarrassed about your equipment, but then you still have plenty of opinions and advice for everyone else in your multiple daily posts. Not shy about that, right?By the way, ever talk with guys who master and cut vinyl? Ask them what the best cutting lathe of all time is widely considered to be (Neumann.) Now work backwards. What were the (tube) electonics used by Neumann to listen and check those masters?
Of course, Michael Framer is never going to review one, so why bother.
Gee, Jonathan, I won't be putting my phonostage on a T-shirt anytime soon, either.You've got lots of groovy gear, and a party for the hoi polloi. Sweet! Wish you'd invite me. I'd like to be a fly on the wall, and maybe meet a couple of the attendees, with whom I have the most tenuous of relationships.
But here's my impression: AnalogGuy's posts are about records. He has a lot of records I wish were in my collection--which is why I read his posts. You, on the other hand, seem to have lots of unobtanium equipment. I'd like to hear it, to see how it compares to my own; but I'd rather have the other guy's records. And my stereo.
...or are your reading comprehension skills just poor.i gave you an invitation twice now, and you haven't taken me up on it. provide a compelling reason for me, and perhaps we can speak privately.
why is what i use relevant to that post? sorry for not being one to say "what i own is best."
in other posts (you clearly read them) i've mentioned types of equipment i favor, and i also tend to say what i have heard when i'm providing input.
i've repeatedly told you i've heard good characteristics and bad of all technologies. what, exactly, are you not getting?
maybe go back to shooting films about swing music or tufts?
it's clear you've learned a ton in 6 years. good for you!
is michael fremer (i presume that's who you mean) still a reviewer? i don't read audio magazines and haven't so much as looked at one for at least 10 years, but maybe you can enlighten us/me.
Analog Guy, I am very sorry to hear that your family was robbed. I have no desire for you to feel your security is compromised by my request. I will take you up on your offer to contact you privately. To do that I would need your email address.My interest in this is very simple. You have been posting on gear, and you clearly have a point of view, an agenda if you will. That's fine, we all do to some extent. But you happen to post on equipment a lot. I find it very useful to have a context to understand where someone is coming from. For example, (a very well trodden one) Mr. John Ellison has repeatedly posted about his inability to distinquish digital recording of analog from the real thing. Well, a quick visit to the inmates system section places this in context. Mr. Ellison listens to self powered, inefficient mini monitors which don't have much resolving abilities. So, his stance is entirely comprehensible.
If you wish to disparage Shindo's vinyl setup, for example, the first thing I wonder is, what are you listening to? If you think that is poor value (you injected the concept of value in that post, remember?) the first thing I would ask, is what do you consider "good value" and that is usually answered by seeing how people plunk down their own money.
By the way, I don't make documentary films, but what's up with "maybe go back to shooting films about swing music or tufts?" To "go back" I would have had to have been there already. Maybe you IMDB'd the wrong guy?
Oh, and Milo, contact me privately about coming by for a listen if you like. For that matter, my door is always open if someone wanted to come to the Mill for a session.
hi, jonathan:
i'm a little pressed for time, so here's a quick reply:To do that I would need your email address.
it's possible to email nearly anyone through the AA form by clicking on their handle. mine's no different than for anyone else -- and you must know this as you ask milos to respond to you privately.If you wish to disparage Shindo's vinyl setup, for example, the first thing I wonder is, what are you listening to?
i've not disparaged shindo's vinyl setup that i recall -- but i did say 2 things that may not have been clear. i don't believe either one requires that anyone know what gear i am (/am not) using:
1) @ $20k for a vinyl front-end, the term 'value' does not apply. this is not shindo-specific. my analog front-end is not a 'value' system, either.
2) "best in show" sound does not necessarily mean "great sound". i used the town beauty pageant earlier, and it still applies.
if you took either of those statements as anti-shindo, i'm sorry. as i see it, they had little to do with any single manufacturer, but i suppose they could have been perceived as related to shindo simply because they came up in response to a shindo-related original post.
i'm certain this would have all been clear had we been speaking face-to-face, and i'm certain you would learn that i don't really have an agenda (at least no more than your average non-salesperson & non-audiophile evangelist does, to your point above.)
finally...
the first thing I would ask, is what do you consider "good value" and that is usually answered by seeing how people plunk down their own money.you could have asked me this question in a public forum; the answer does not depend on what i use at home. while i enjoy my music a great deal (and one could say i enjoy my own system as a result), i would not say it is 'good value'. one can know value (or have an opinion on it) without having that piece at home. can one drive a ferrari but know that a camry is a "good value"? i think so -- but your statement implies otherwise.
i stated it in earlier posts, but i think people buying idlers that were up in someone's attic for a song, then restoring them (at not terribly great expense) can make for good value. when you get to $20k, it may be 'good sound', but 'good value' it ain't.
i still remain unconvinced about why you or anyone needs to know my system to support any of those claims.
by anyone's definition, i have pretty highly-resolving audio gear that, to me, reproduces music quite well. respectfully, your john e. example doesn't apply; he's taking a stance of 'i can't hear a difference therefore there isn't a difference.' i've expressed a general perspective about value in audio.
talk to me about the $100k caliburn. my thesis will be the same: it may sound good, but the 'value' term need not apply.
i hope this is just rational discussion. i offer a public apology for making it anything other than that.
This battle is rather amusing for me.It would be interesting to go to the Mill and listen to one-of-a -kind gear, some made by people I'm curious about. It would certainly be a gas to flip through your record collection, or to hear a bit of it on my equipment, in my home.
None of those things are likely to happen. But I thought I might weigh with this: I'm perfectly content to learn details of the collection you've put together, without caring about the equipment you use to play said records.
I played records for quite a few years on three radio stations and several nightclubs, and on a variety of gear. If I played a good set, it always sounded good. In the studio, or the club, or on a cassette On my home stereo gear, music has sounded better as I have improved my equipment--and I have some decent gear. But I'm much prouder of my record collection, and I haven't posted my system, because I don't see the point. If I start asking other VA members which cart I ought to buy, then I suppose they might think they had a right to expect such information--but that isn't happening.
My record collection and my experience are my credentials, not my gear, or money, or the car I drive. If you post your system, I'll probably read it, eventually. If you never list it, I could care less.
Peace.
thank you, milo.personally, i generally care little for what other people are using, and when i do post in a thread where people ask for advice i chime in if i have (in my opinion) something meaningful to share. i try to state why i have a basis for comparison.
that said, i presume most folks can either decide to pay attention to what i say or ignore it -- but it's the advice-seeker's discretion.
jweiss has posted the same thing on 3 occasions now. none of the original advice-seekers have asked for system details -- so either it wasn't important to them or they tuned out the 'noise'. jweiss has also never taken me up on writing me a personal email and my offer to possibly share in a private conversation what i prefer not to list on a public forum. he likes to use the term 'disingenuous' (though he doesn't always get the spelling right) where it does not apply.
it's entertaining to me -- particularly his strong concern.
i try to help people with questions, but i don't see why there's such concern over what gives me such great satisfaction. i can share information with people from mistakes i've made, lessons i've learned, and things i've done right.
jweiss & tubesforever are the only people who have asked for that information out -- and neither one bothered to follow up with me personally. i've never been inclined to look at either one of their systems; doesn't interest me.
the music is more important. i enjoy the discussion about records much more. post up some more covers, milo! i've got a good one for tomorrow...almost want to post it tonight.
I'll say this much about the whole fray...1) My system isn't listed, either. Hifitommy is always after me to do it, but I don't because it is always in a state of flux...or confusion. Anyway, It runs from Magneplanars to KEFs with PS Audio to Conrad Johnson electronics. I also have a dozen, or so, tonearms, and my turntables are either modified, or custom-built. I own a few drawers full of cartridges. I have an ASR phono stage on the way, but who knows how long it will stay around? So why bother trying to list it all? analog guy, I believe you should mention it when it applies to the topic at hand...and, I'm not trying to be overly critical about it.
2) Johnathan listens to a wide variety of music. This I know. Why should he participate in every "spinning" thread, if he doesn't want to? Like most of us, he listens to a bit of everything.
All that said, if someone comes along with specific recommendations about equipment, he should be prepared to answer specific questions about his own equipment...and musical tastes. Otherwise, how can his opinion be weighed? We know only what our experience tells us, and no one on this board has a divining rod that will point him in the direction of vinyl nirvana. This is not to criticize, but to show why some are frustrated by any guy who is somehow mysterious in his presentation of things.
mosin, i take your point.however, if someone doesn't list their system, the person who asked the question can decide whether or not to place any weight on the advice given. in other words, some (like you, perhaps), will place no weight on any words w/o the advice-giver listing the system. others may decide on a post-by-post basis if there is enough information to establish credibility.
on the thread in question, jweiss jumps at me for making a post that did not discuss or recommend any specific gear -- only a concept to consider. it wasn't jonathan's question. why does he have a hard-on for my system? i dunno.
all that aside, no one's taken me up on my offer to discuss this privately.
if you must know, my family was robbed a number of years ago. with the way the internet has gone, it's not terribly hard to find information about everyone. i don't have a particular interest in listing the inventory of my house to someone who can (easily enough) find a map to it -- even if i do live in a place where trespassers are not taken to in a kind manner.
if it's relevant to a private discussion, then i'm happy to talk and share information.
maybe this makes me paranoid...i dunno. but I do know that not only do i not really care about what other people have, i don't wish to display what i do or do not have. i don't like to get into discussions of who-has-the-better-amplifier; even if i was "the winner" (as if there ever could be such a thing), that kind of talk embarrass me and makes me feel uncomfortable.
hope that clears things up a bit.
(oh...regarding point #2... not sure who suggested jonathan participate in anything. it definitely wasn't me. no clue where your comment comes from or to whom it is directed.)
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