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In Reply to: Rek-O-Kut / Papst project starts posted by Mark Kelly on September 18, 2006 at 22:17:36:
Be sure and keep us up-to-date with developments; your REK-O-KUT is a rim-idler like the Garrard 301/401, or a belt drive? Believe R.O.K made both types....
Follow Ups:
Ours are belt driven, but when we finish, they will be string driven. Rek-O-Kut made a variety of idler drives, and at least one of them uses the Papst motor, but most do not.
I lost some prat to the idler tables I have built....But holy main bearings Mosin, the sound is so sublime! It has a three dimensional image to the music that I have only heard from top flight Basis and other 25k and up turntables.
Now I need to take thread tying lessons ;-) I had too much Bourbon to tie a knot last night. It would play for a side and then work itself loose!
Thanks for the upholstery thread idea....
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Idlers are superb PRAT turntables...details are realistically projected like you are there in a recording studio. I would characterize the sound as tight and direct. It is awesome for Rock and Roll.Belt drives like my Thorens and Linn had nearly inky black bacgrounds and had an introspective feel like being half way back in the hall.
The thread drive on this N-33H is simply sublime. It has the same inky black background as my Thorens project table but with greater bass and slam. It sounds more like being right there in the pit of the orchestra than my idlers sound.
Moreover the 3 D soundstage is the most lifelike you could imagine.
There is enough space between instruments and depth to the soundfield that you could easily take a stroll on the stage and move around between the players. This is an experience I generally only get on extremely well recorded LP's with my best cartridge and tonearm.
I heard this on all my LP's last night and with the clunky stock Rek O Cut model 120 stereo arm with about 20 tons of effective mass. Plus no antiskate, so my channel balance was off as well.
I cannot wait to hear this with my fav arm and cartridges.
The thread drive is night and day different from the belt...I played both back and forth (not easy with thread by the way) and the thread just allowed the music to roll over me like a big ocean wave. In contrast the belt drive sounded like the sound was pushing and pulling.
The belt drive was fine, the thread drive was unbelieveably awesome. I can see now why Ray O Stat commented that a three phase motor and thread drive turned his perspective of turntable playback upside down. It did exactly the same for my non optimized platform.
I will keep an idler for rock and keep the thread drive for jazz and classical--and maybe Pink Floyd too! I cannot wait to listen to it on some marginal albums tonight just to see how the sound stage will sound on non optimal recordings.
The thread drive is simply sublime. I will give up a little prat any day of the year to hear a soundstage this convincingly real. And I am not even done tweaking anything yet! Mosin warned me about this. I just did not understand what he was saying until I experienced the sound for myself.
My speed control is off, so I need to do some mods to get the speed properly adjusted. And I need to learn to tie a better knot (probably easier without a bunch of Bourbon!)
The tables belong to Mosin and Ray-O-Stat, I'm making the drives for them. I believe they are using thread drive, the motors themselves were made to run belts (they have a small crowned pulley machined into the motor shaft)
I believe it is a tight fit pressed on piece. I would not think that Pabst would make different motors for the same purpose. They would just press on the fittings they need to do the work.Actually this might have been a Rek O Kut piece pressed onto the motor shaft.
Just for grins, can you inspect your Empire Pabst motor to see if it uses the exact same pulley?
I was hoping to have my brother in law machine a pulley for a thread drive that would provide more positive thread alignment.
Yes I have inspected it and yes it is certainly all one piece.I do think Papst made motors to OEM specification, that is, after all, their business. The same holds today - Maxon will make any motor configuration you want as long as you want 10,000 of them.
Yes, and we will most likely press new pulleys over the machined part. My thoughts are to make a simple nylon collar that presses over the shaft with the pulley extended beyond where it is currently located. This would make for a longer shaft that is more like the Empire's, but suitable for string.
Otherwise it would be my design and it might or might not be successful ;-)
but IIRC correctly, the ROK motor has its own external housing and is larger and heavier than the Empire (pictured)The spindle is pressed onto the motor shaft as one piece on both motors; the Empire has 331/3 /45/78 steps
I'm 99% sure these wouldn't interchange from one T/T to the other, tho' these are from the same era and maker so indeed, v. similar designs
Grins
No. The ones that we are using are identical, except for the shaft. The color and the top plate are different, but we are indeed talking about the same motor. The Rek-O-Kut and Empire are strikingly similar in mechanical features. This makes the more ugly Rek-O-Kut ideal for a ground-up DIY.
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