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In Reply to: So once again, someone bashes a product or company because... posted by tketcham on September 17, 2006 at 08:13:59:
**Posted by tketcham (A) on September 17, 2006 at 08:13:59tketcham:
Are you the same guy who complained about this before, making similarly false statements about what people have written, and providing no evidence to back them up when asked??
Because THAT'S what REALLY sucks. These paranoid rants that people go on, because they "perceive" some of the products their favourite audio company or whatever isn't glorified and sanctified 100% of the time, "as they feel it should be". Ridiculous! "People who do this" have now joined the ranks of paranoid zealots who cry because they feel their "turntable and/or other audio product was put in a bad light".**they didn't have the product set up correctly or use it correctly, or didn't give it a chance to break in, or received a used (or abused) item with problems not there when it was new, or the best one, it was a completely different component that was causing a problem.**
Who's "they"? How many people are we talking about here who allegedly "bashed" your favourite product? Where's your specific evidence of any of this, because none of those complaints apply in my case (I mean according to the Rega instruction manual, not according to YOU), and none apply to anyone else I've read here recently. You did say "recently" didn't you?
**The recent poster is certainly not the only one who's done this. They have now joined the ranks of many others who are guilty of this "quick-to-accuse" mentality. Even the "Reviews" webpages include incidents similar to this. "This product isn't any good." - and then - "Ooops; this product is pretty good."**
Who's this mysterious "recent poster" you allude to? It certainly can't be me, because I wasn't "quick" to come to any conclusions about my P2, and I did the right thing by asking people what they thought, BEFORE coming to any conclusions about the Rega. If you don't have the wherewithal to understand the distinction here, you ought not to be incessantly ranting and raving about "people" bashing your favourite product. The other problem with your rant here is that yes Virginia, there ARE products that suck! That's why webpages include what you consider "similar incidents" (which of course, are not, since I wasn't giving a review of the P2, or even a conclusive opinion). Guess what? So do audio magazines (on that rare occasion they don't mind pissing away the paycheque....). People have different opinons of different products, and sometimes those opinions won't agree with you. DEAL WITH IT. Don't do so by wasting bandwidth writing meaningless and misguided complaints about what you perceive is an attack on your favourite audio products (it usually isn't).
**THAT'S what sucks: the misidentification of the "problem" doesn't get properly identified until much later and the original post is now isolated from the explanation (and sometimes apology) for the accusation.**
Now you're ranting about "accusations"?? Anything else you care to add? Was someone killed in this as well? Stop watching soap operas, life doesn't have to be so dramatic! The newsflash of the day is that you're the one who misidentified a "problem". I somehow doubt you will identify it correctly "much later" though.
**If someone does a search of the archives, they may only get the original post declaring how bad something is.**
You see the selection marked "All"? Click on that, and you'll be magically whisked to "All" messages in that thread. Make sure you have a lot of time though before you click on it, because a lot of people responded with nonsense to my sincere query. Like you did.
**Slow down; ask questions without the assumptions before you make accusations of poor quality or sound. **
.... or of Rega-bashing. Try taking your own advice sometime before you fire off negative poster-bashing rants.
**Give yourself and the product some time. **As I said, I certainly did. That was the --reason-- for my post asking for advice on what the problem was, DUH. Absolutely no one was able to identify the problem, nor was the Rega instruction manual, nor did the web search I did before posting on AA. Nor did YOU, for that matter, before firing off paranoid missives.
**Get things straight before firing off negative posts.**
Again, try taking your own advice sometimes, before you dole it out to others. Better still, if someone doesn't like your cherished, beloved audio product, for -whatever- reason, ACCEPT IT! Everyone has a right to their opinion, mate, that's what makes reading these forums interesting. Yeah, even misguided souls like you! If you're not strong enough to handle the fact that some people are not going to like your prized turntable, then here's a novel idea: don't go into threads that are titled "This ???? sucks!".
Have a nice day.
Follow Ups:
- Nope, wasn't me... - tketcham 10:17:10 09/17/06 (4)
In Reply to: Re: So once again, someone bashes a product or company because... posted by Sylvian on September 17, 2006 at 09:22:57:
I actually have been honest about some of the items I've used and stated their poor qualities. But I also try to be fair and state what's right with them or qualify that they don't work well for my particular setup. I don't really care if someone else likes or dislikes the products I'm using. My ego and self-worth doesn't depend on a stereo component. But I do care if a product (even one I don't own) is given a bad rap when it wasn't deserved.And you are right, there are no lives at stake here. So put my post in perspective as well. It's merely a suggestion to try and make this forum reasonably objective, for both good and not-so-good products. (There are rarely truely bad products.) That way, people coming here to get information and advice will find the best advice that we can provide.
My point, Sylvian, is that before someone posts how bad something is (this product SUCKS or some angle on the SUCKS theme), they should be pretty sure of the statements before firing it off. Nothing wrong with a negative opinion of something if it deserves it, as Mosin points out, but the opinion should be based on something more than first impressions or a poor diagnosis of the problem. If someone isn't really sure of the diagnosis, don't post something that is strongly negative.
I'm having a great day and I wish you the same. Glad to hear that your friend's setup is sounding better. And good of you to repost your findings.
- Re: Nope, wasn't me... - Sylvian 13:17:25 09/17/06 (3)
In Reply to: Nope, wasn't me... posted by tketcham on September 17, 2006 at 10:17:10:
**I actually have been honest about some of the items I've used and stated their poor qualities. But I also try to be fair and state what's right with them or qualify that they don't work well for my particular setup.**So was I! I was being honest in my assessment of MY P2, and in stating its poor qualities, just as I was being honest in stating its good qualities! (But for some reason, you just focused on the poor qualities I stated...). But nevertheless, I never said "someone else's P2 will sound just as bad!", did I? In fact, I was VERY fair and objective in my assessment, which was the purpose of putting my post up! I was trying to find out if the problem was inherently due to the sound of the P2 or the set up. (That's why it was titled "Why does **my** Rega P2 suck?!".
After all, what do I know, this is my first experience with a Rega product? The answers I got, ranged from "Yeah, it's supposed to sound that way", to "no, its not supposed to sound that way". I kept repeating the fact that the responses I was getting were not helping me determine if it was the set up or the table (not until Matt posted good info on checking the set up). That shows that I made many efforts to find out why it sucked, and didn't conclude anything!
In fact, as I later posted, I had to find out the reason it sounded the way it did on my own, since as far as I know, no one here has ever said anything about the platter being part of the set up, or having a distinct preferred side. (And when I went to the trouble to post more honest observations about this platter being the solution to the problem, in the hopes it would help others in my situation in the future to troubleshoot their Rega setups, I was rewarded for that by having some fool immediately respond to me by claiming I'm playing "headgames" with the forum, because according to the ignorant fool, "as everyone knows", it couldn't possibly make a difference!)
**It's merely a suggestion to try and make this forum reasonably objective, for both good and not-so-good products. (There are rarely truely bad products.) That way, people coming here to get information and advice will find the best advice that we can provide. **
Define "best" advice? I read -hundreds- of posts here that in my opinion, are WRONGHEADED advice. People who just don't know what they're talking about, but have convinced themselves otherwise. I let it slide, because they have a right to their opinions, no matter how wrong I know those opinions to be. When someone is perceived as bashing the Rega for example, as I've seen, a lot of people, like you, will immediately chime in and defend the Rega. Even if you don't or have never owned one. But if a lot of people bash say, the Clever Little Clock, you would probably be whittling your bat right now and preparing to head down to the CLC-bashing. Because some things are just "okay" to bash, even if you've never owned them or heard them! That's hypocrisy at its finest, if you ask me...
So I think people should carefully consider opinions on a given product. There's NO shortage of opinions here praising the Rega, if one does research on the subject. You weigh that with the opinions against it, try to see if the poster's are coming from an advanced knowledge of audio or a place of sheer ignorance, and than make up your own mind based on what you can gather, from all sources and possibilities.
**My point, Sylvian, is that before someone posts how bad something is (this product SUCKS or some angle on the SUCKS theme), they should be pretty sure of the statements before firing it off. **
No, I was pretty sure that my P2 SUCKED. That's why I wrote that it SUCKED. I wrote that not because as you might assume, I thought it'd be nice to take some time out of my day to bash Rega, but because I wanted some help to UNsuck it. I really don't care about the companies behind the products or how they feel about what people say of their products. All I care is that I have stuff that sounds good. If not, I either make it sound good or get rid of it.
**Nothing wrong with a negative opinion of something if it deserves it, as Mosin points out, but the opinion should be based on something more than first impressions or a poor diagnosis of the problem. If someone isn't really sure of the diagnosis, don't post something that is strongly negative.**
Okay. The next time someone bashes the Clever Little Clock, or other items they have prejudices against before they have carefully considered it beyond "first impressions", or have a poor diagnosis of the problem, or have actually not HEARD the bloody thing at all, I'll expect you on their case. You can start with little Stewie here, since you seemed to have missed him the first go round:
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=general&n=438646&highlight=clever+little+clock&r=&session=
**I'm having a great day and I wish you the same. Glad to hear that your friend's setup is sounding better. And good of you to repost your findings. **
Thanks! You see, I've already forgotten that I was called a lying scammer for having done so....
- I love it. Tom writes a few graphs, you write a novel . . . once again, - HenryH 15:13:02 09/17/06 (2)
In Reply to: Re: Nope, wasn't me... posted by Sylvian on September 17, 2006 at 13:17:25:
chill, dude!
HenryA 12-gauge shotgun is the ultimate arbiter of disputes - G. Gordon Liddy
- Re: I love it. Tom writes a few graphs, you write a novel . . . once again, - Sylvian 17:01:43 09/17/06 (1)
In Reply to: I love it. Tom writes a few graphs, you write a novel . . . once again, posted by HenryH on September 17, 2006 at 15:13:02:
Henry wrote:**I love it. Tom writes a few graphs, you write a novel . . . once again,**
If you love it, then why are you complaining? I only wrote a few paragraphs, technically speaking, but if a few paragraphs are a "novel" to you, then you should probably not venture into posts longer than one or two lines, and save your brain cells. You might need them some day.
*chill, dude!*
I am "chill", "dude". Or about as "chill" as I can get in this heat. Again, if you're afraid of reading anything longer than one or two lines, please don't read my posts. They usually are.
Oh btw, "have a nice day".
- Who's complaining? Great entertainment this is . . . Master Yoda. /nt\ - HenryH 04:05:13 09/18/06 (0)
In Reply to: Re: I love it. Tom writes a few graphs, you write a novel . . . once again, posted by Sylvian on September 17, 2006 at 17:01:43:
HenryA 12-gauge shotgun is the ultimate arbiter of disputes - G. Gordon Liddy
- FYI, Tom does not own a Rega. AFAIK, he never has. - HenryH 09:46:47 09/17/06 (0)
In Reply to: Re: So once again, someone bashes a product or company because... posted by Sylvian on September 17, 2006 at 09:22:57:
Chill out, man.
HenryA 12-gauge shotgun is the ultimate arbiter of disputes - G. Gordon Liddy
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