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In Reply to: Re: But that was a 78, not an LP posted by tao on September 16, 2006 at 19:50:19:
33 1/3 RPM alone does not make a record an LP.
Follow Ups:
peter goldmark refered to wallerstein’s rca releases as the first lp’s and many others since then, including bachman, have too. now....with goldmark some of that may have been his guilt (something I don’t think he had) over taking all the initial press credit for the mirco-groove instead of including bachman, wallerstein and even snepvangers and chinn. Those 30’s rca’s were the first commercial longer format 33 1/3’s though.
You're overstating Wallerstein's contribution to the evolution of the phonograph. Wallerstein was an executive, not an engineer. Secondly, the critical point is "what is an LP." The initials "LP" are commonly understood to mean a 33 1/3 RPM microgroove record, not merely a 33 1/3 RPM record. The earlier RCA 33 1/3 records were a commercial disaster. Their groove was only a little narrower than that of a 78 so the RCA records could offer only about 8 or 9 minutes playing time. That's "long - playing" only when compared to a 4 1/2 minute 78. Columbia's microgroove LPs could handle 225 to 300 grooves per inch and accomodate up to 20 minutes of music per side. No one today would define an LP as a wide groove record with under 10 minutes of playing time. Thus the answer to the question "who issued the first stereo LPs" can only be answered with a microgroove record. "Who made the first stereo record" is a different question and the answer seems to be Alan Blumlein. In 1931 Blumlein patented many of the fundamental components of the stereo record that are in use to this day, and he had at least one experimental 78 rpm stereo record pressed.
I’m not comparing, technically (especially since the rca’s were made from victorlac), the rca’s and the microgroove’s. I’m just saying that there are certain reasons (other than groove size) that one could say that the rca’s were the first lp’s.I think wallerstein was the one whose work, vision and belief in a longer format lp is what made it possible. he is the one who hired bachman, hunter (who developed both the victorlac at rca and the union carbon and carbide vinyl composition used by columbia), murphy (who was one of the first to see a german magnetophon tape recorder and got it for wallerstein) and other talented people. he is the one with the vision to insist that everything that columbia recorded at 78 rpm was also done at 33 1/3 rpm on 16-inch blanks. that move gave columbia a huge advantage when their lp’s finally appeared and competitors had only old, noisy shellac to use for older titles. i’d say he had a lot to do with the development of the modern lp (wallerstein once said the modern lp wasn’t an invention but a team development)……much much more than goldmark, who WAS nothing more than an executive.
All this business about who hired whom is completely irrelevant to the question of what was the first stereo LP. I'm sorry but there's no rational argument for a shellac wide groove record with a groove pitch half that of a modern record and a playing time no longer than 9 minutes being called an LP. Since 1948 the term is universally understood to mean a 33 1/3 RPM vinyl microgroove record. The RCA 33 1/3 records are doubly irrelevant since no stereo recordings were ever issued in that format.> > he is the one who hired bachman < <
According to Read and Welch the name is Backmann.
i'm not trying to convince you of anything. i'm just giving this thread what some others think about the first "lp's"“You're overstating Wallerstein's contribution to the evolution of the phonograph”
“All this business about who hired whom is completely irrelevant”
I’ll let those two quotes from your two preceding posts speak for themselves together.
Bill Bachman would say Read and Welch must be talking about someone other than him…..as would Ed Wallerstein and others on that team....like, Ike Rodman, Jim Hunter, Vin Liebler, Bill Savory and Rene Snepvangers
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