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In Reply to: About used records - people's reactions posted by kjd03842 on September 8, 2006 at 13:39:04:
...
Follow Ups:
lines with a "Re:" like you are responding to what someone else said when you are spewing it out in the first place? Oh yeah, and . . .
HenryA 12-gauge shotgun is the ultimate arbiter of disputes - G. Gordon Liddy
Very true, if you're Buying Blind, however with used records
once you become familiar with the local used record dealers you'll soon learn how expert / ethical they are at assessing their stock and fair they are with their grading/pricing.I've found 2 different dealers in my area, as well as 2 online sources who are impeccable in their grading and square on their pricing and with these dealers over a 3 yr period.
BTW I found the aforementioned superb online sources, right here in the Archive, which in just about every facet of this Hobby has proved to be of great value.
I've sourced approx. 1,500 used LP's from the aforementioned dealers and have yet to find one that wasn't at least as good as they'd graded it.
It's not all that difficult for any of us to learn how to evaluate
used records with a fair degree of proficiency if one does some simple research on what to look for here in the Asylum Archive, and with another year or less of experience so we can get damn good at spotting Groove damage, so by that point the risk is actually significantly less than buying new records which may have various warp or other issues.In addition to learning what you're looking at, cultivating some expertise in cleaning allows one to get incredible bargains as it's not all that difficult to look through or around the crud, spindle marks, etc. and other indicators often tell the story in themselves, certain types of scratches as well as scuffing are also irrelevant
for the most part.I wish I had a fraction of the $$ I've dropped for new Cd's and even SACD, often ones billed as big time digital re-masters only
to find them audibly comprised by the Copy protection or useless for my PC, perceptibly compressed to having the very life compressed out of them, or they were nice and clean and dynamic etc. but the re-mastering engineer obviously didn't understand and or couldn't relate to the artist.So personally I find used Vinyl is by far the safest by a wide margin, as long as I'm either doing the selecting or dealing with a
reliable/trusted source.OTOH, like just about anything else if you're buying from unknown online sources, particularly on Sleaze Bay and like judging the Vinyl don't bother educating yourself on the danger signs indicative of dirt bag or Moronic sellers or in buying locally and you happen to be lazy and or somewhat of a Cretin, then buying used will frequently finding ending up being a F#@Ked Chicken.
noting that you're still unregistered and from reading your post's and responses to others posts, you've demonstrated an obvious penchant for confrontation, to outright trolls, as well as being entirely disinterested in actually learning anything, so I wouldn't exactly be shocked to shit, if it turned out that you are intellectually, character and or emotionally challenged to the degree that perhaps you might consider avoiding buying used ?
Regards FredJ
you will be pitching it back all day long once you start.
BUT, you are right in that if you find a good dealer then you can always trust getting a fair shake. There is even a couple of ebayer who I am getting goods from.Cleaning is paramount. Most, I meant really almost every single record I clean with my urgent laboroous neck sweating method sound like they were handed down from the hand of god. [for an atheist this is truly miraculous.]
I am so cheap, though, that I passed on an original Mingus ~ Ah Um yesterday taht was going for $10 because I thoiught it was too high priced!!!! What is the matter with me?!? But I did find Tull's first record, the one where they all look old on the cover for $8, so all is well.
~Slainte,
The OMalley
nt
.
~Slainte,
The OMalley
OMalley
" you will be pitching it back all day long once you start."I see it as I'm giving him a break by responding at all, based on his track record, as well as responding to his statement straight up, despite the fact that he's doubtless just being a Jerk off and
doesn't actually care to learn anything or engage in sincere exchange.Who knows at some point Guy may get himself assessed get medicated
end up getting laid, grow up enough to become embarrassed realize just how pathetic, infantile, tawdry and tedious the troll thing is, decide he needs a diversion, register and play things straight ?
BTW did you ever kick the Alslop Orbidrek to the curb ;-)
Regards Ferd
but I have mitigated the issue immensely. I sink wash my records and rinse with distilled water. My next wash with RRL is going against much more clean records and I use just the OrbiDrac pad thingy.[maybe I can form fit other pads to it?] I vacuum the brush after several records. I started doing that after one of your endless chiding posts. I vacuum the crevice tool paint prush strip and the pad and it comes clean like a baby's ass, well those things are never clean, but you know what I mean.What is funny is that if you do that, vacuum the thing, it will last almost forever. [what a scam those replacement pads are!] But I think I am going to get a micro-fiber brush to do the RRL wash as it will actually get into the grooves much deeper.
Carbon fiber brushes don't work for me. I bought the Audioquest at your suggestion but it clumps up and becomes unusable. I use it as a dry brush and it is a winner in that effect. I now use the Hunt brush as a final wipe after the entire vacuuming because the records become energized and I have to remove dust before putting them in their sleeve.
I think the Nitty Gritty brush is my next tryout.
Yeah, transferring grit from one record to the next is what you mentioned as the negative in my old method. Don;t belive I am doing that anymore by vacuuming the pad. The actaull vacuum I am using is a killer and I don;t think I could build taht into an RCM as it would suck the record to. But using it manually does a kick ass job, no doubt. The result is undeniable - the records are slick and quiet. I am getting better at it. You do need to develop a bit of english with the process but once you do you are all over it.
it is STILL A DRAG, though. a pain in the aching ass. but it is worth it, oh yes indeed.
So let's see, Nitty Gritty brush to try next and if that is a no go and clumps up then the Nitty Gritty pad. Maybe the stiff bristle brushes if the Nitty Gritty doesn't cut it.
I would buy that KAB cheapo RCM but why should I when I think my method is getting better and I suspect I am doing a better job than some of those machines. [oh, get ready for a flame]
I still owe you a big 'thanks' for kicking me in the ribs with "get a clue". That woke me up. Knuckleheads like me need a whetstone.
~Slainte,
The OMalley
OMalley, you're one of the few that admits that those carbon fibre brushes are NOT the most effecctive brush for wet cleaning. They're the most adequate brush. But I learned a cure. Unfortunately it involves using more of that $80/gallon fluid.When I first start the cleaning ritual I use a clean toothbrush to help align the bristles. Then I make sure that the AQ brush is actually WET by starting with a small pool of fluid on the record and then sometimes dripping fluid right onto the bristles where they separate from each other. Once it's good and wet the bristles seem to hold together better. Sometimes I have to give the brush another drop or so to rewet the bristles. Holding the brush perpedicular to the grooves instead of angling the brush also seems to help.
Because I'm having to use more fluid initially to get the brush wet, I'm making sure to clean more records at each session so the per lp cost is still reasonable.
Sorry if this is just a bunch of blathering uselessness if you've already tried these things.
Tom
Tom: My wife works as a research tech at the local university, so I'm lucky in that she simply brings home a giant bottle of lab grade water for me every 3 or 4 months. I'm in full agreement with you that getting the carbon fibre brushes good and wet before you start cleaning is a great idea and that's exactly what I use the lab grade water for, as well as rinsing and cleaning the brushes with a couple of vacs over the KAB slot (which also tends to clean the velvet slot) when I'm finished the cleaning session. I simply pour about an about 1/4" into a small bowl and park it right next to the turntable I spin the records on to apply the fluid. When I'm done cleaning, I just dump it and do not feel any great remorse, as I know I would dumping RRL down the sink. Perhaps you could find a local supplier for lab grade or heavily distilled water for the soak and clean as I do. I'm sure it would be considerably less expensive than using the RRL in that function and I've experienced no deleterious effects in doing so.
Blake, you bring up something I've considered; that is, using distilled water to initially soak the brush bristles. But I wonder if there is a fair amount of dilution of cleaning fluid when the brush is saturated with water. I've come to accept that I'm going to have to use the equivalent of a couple additional records worth of solution to pre-wet the brushes on the first lp. That's why I now make sure that I clean a minimum of 6 to 8 records at a time. That way I'm using typically less than 25% additional solution. The benefit of having a fully saturated brush to begin with is that I find I can use less solution for the records that follow. So I'm probably using quite a bit less than 25% additional solution.The reduction in OCD frustration from clumping bristles is worth it. Those bottles of RRL clean a shit load (that's a more precise term for a lot) of records for the money so I'm not too concerned about wasting solution.
Like you, I'm using distilled water (though not the premium stuff you have access to) to rinse the brushes after I'm done with cleaning records. Once they're dried I use a clean soft toothbrush to realign the bristles and brush out the loose crud that's still imbedded in the bristles. Works like a charm.
Tom
I usually try to clean at least 4 or 5 at a time, but occasionally I'll clean 1 or 2 depending on how badly I want to listen. If I'm doing 4 or more, I'll actually start with what I feel is the cleanest record first; that way when I soak the brushes initially, if I'm diluting, I'm diluting on a record that probably needs cleaning the least. I can always do an extra pass of the Deep Clean if I feel the need to. By the time I'm through the first record, the brushes are definitely saturated and I haven't wasted the RRL. I'm probably getting between 250 and 300 records out of each bottle of Deep and SVW using this method.
I just turn it around for the following soaking spin. Normally this would get the whole surface covered.
I also brush a few strokes back and forth (sort of like painting the record), which deform those clumps.
but it also sounds like more tediousness on top of a labor intensive process already. But I will try it if the stiffer bristle brushes dont work out for me. ~ All suggestions get filed.Also, don't you have a lot more liquid to vacuum up? You must have a pretty drippy record. I get a lot of the fluid off in my vacuuming. The record has to air dry for several minutes. I will have to try it and see.
I do 10 records at a time. it takes me up to two hours to complete the process because I give 'em time after the sink bath that I don;t have to wipe them dry on one side so I don't foul the pad I use on the manual RCM. I'm getting streamlined but oofah. I am too exact, that's the problem. I can clean the ehll out of a record. Now soldering a PCB, I am a piker in that regard.
~Slainte,
The OMalley
and that's why they work so well. I use the KAB EV-1 with an Electrolux canister vacuum and give the record 5 full turns for the final vacuuming. Gets it nice and dry and I haven't had a static problem.Tom
No static problem here either-I have my KAB/cleaning station set up in the basement where humidity is never less than 40-45%. And your Electrolux is a good machine. I use my KAB with a Filter Queen. Every once in a while I read a post here from someone with a KAB that is not happy with the results and I can't help but think they are using a piece of crap vac with it. Hook up a decent vac to the KAB and, as far as I'm concerned, you're beyond Nitty Gritty/VPI/Clearaudio type machines in performance, probably somewhere between them and Monks/Loricraft land. The EV1, although it is simple and perhaps even overpriced for what it is as a manufactured piece, is truly a bargain when compared with any of the commercial RCM's.
Tom
i need to break down and buy that one. or find a gd-damned DD table.
~Slainte,
The OMalley
I could have put that $75 into a KAB EV-1 from the beginning. Expensive lesson learned. It's not that the Orbitrac doesn't work, it's that it's a ripoff for replacement parts and fluids. Allsop gets you hooked on the $40 starter set and then you end up getting reamed with their "refill" parts. I tried the DIY parts and fluids thing for about a week and then Henry and others kicked me in the head hard enough for me to snap out of the Orbitrac stupor and get myself a true RCM. It's not "cheap", but it's a good bargain in the long run.Tom
those refills and pads. I think I will get the DD table, Henry is right about them being good for something! [grin], instead of the KAB because 1. I am a hardhead, 2. I think hand applying the vacuum works good for me.The pads that come with the Orbidrac and the little spray bottles are a keeper. Those are usefull. Even that little tiny brush which i use to clean my Hunt brush. The enclosure can hold the AQ or Deram brush etc, so all is not a loss.
~Slainte,
The OMalley
Tom
it has audiophile cache.
~Slainte,
The OMalley
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