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The Jolida JD9 is an opamp based, solid state phonostage with tube output buffer. It is very well shielded and employs quite heavy gauge metal. I have linked to a full photo of the indside without the shielding in place so you can get an idea of where things are in the layout. The attached photo here shows the "business end" of the amplifier including the loading/gain selection board, the phono amplifier section, and the tube output/buffer stage. The full photos linked show the power supply for the tube stage and for the phono amplifier as well as the shared transformer. The transformer is a nice, twin bobbin, C-core design.
Here is a photo of the entire inside with all shielding in place:
http://www.uptownaudio.com/images/jd9_inside2.jpg
I prefer the sound of the "high output" section as being more transparent and dynamic. All that has been done to achieve the "low output" connection is to use a pair of trim pots to reduce the voltage. The low output is thereby adjustable, which is a pretty cool feature if you need it I suppose. The DIP switches do the job for me, but you could use the level pots to get an exact match in level between your CD player and your turntable if that was more important than ultimate sound quality to you (or if you couldn't tell the difference between them sonically). The "metal boxes" in the design are all shields with the phono amplifier being fully encased in its own Faraday cage. The metal cover over the output board forms another small box with the back wall and botom of the chassis. This is not done to "hide" any workings but genuinely improves SNR by providing excellent shielding. The chassis is quite heavy and so when you include the tube shields, you see basically a chassis within a chassis. The tube board is not completely shielded as the tube pins are open the the main compartment, howewver you can see that they are oriented in a way that provides a shield between them and the other components. It is also worth noting that the phono amplifier shield has two sections with a quasi-compartment for its power supply via another steel divider wall welded to the compartment lid. All told, it is a quite nice piece of gear for a very attractive price with at least acceptable build quality for even the finicky.
-Bill
Follow Ups:
including using HI OUT @ 70 dB gain or LO OUT @ 85 dB gain and adjusting for bass/treble using capacitance/impedance tuning. I haven't figured out which I prefer with the Eroica but it's fun experimenting with it. For now I left it at HI OUT, 70 dB gain, 1K ohm impedance, 100 pF capacitance.Thanks again for providing additional information in this and your previous post. (You too, bjh.) I find it helpful in understanding the circuitry and the relationships of each phase of amplification. Hopefully others will too after all the strife my questions seem to have stirred up.
Your settings are probably correct as verified by your ear but I would advise to eliminate capacitance by setting it to zero. Moving coil cartridges should not be effected by capacitance at that level at all so you would get a slightly more transparent sound by eliminating it completely.
-Bill
but to avoid adding to the complexities of multiple iterations (and my confusion) I was staying within the suggested capacitance range (100 - 500 pF) for the Eroica H. Of that range, the 100 pF sounded best. I did lower the impedance loading based on suggestions that impedance output be roughly 10 to 20 times the input, which for the H version is 77 ohms. I found the sound to be more pleasing than at the default 47K ohms. It may be that the cartridge is still new enough that it's still a bit bright and dropping impedance helps.Now that I have the gain and impedance figured out I'll try the zero capacitance setting for comparison. This phono stage facet of analog sound is fascinating and "a whole lotta fun!"
Tom
PS: I did a search of amplification/passive/active/buffered/tubed/ss etc. and found a wealth of, well, opinions. Seems that people have a very wide range of experiences, knowledge, and personal listening preferences. Even the so-called "experts" don't agree on the different applications of solid state vs tubed, minimalist circuitry (or "clean" as some consider it) vs "colored" buffering (or distortion as some consider it). I've tried to come at this upgrade process with an open mind, seeking the knowledge of others and appreciating their opinions. But I'm also keeping my past 35 years of vinyl listening in mind as to my own personal preferences for stereo sound. Last night, armed with newfound knowledge and understanding, I had a blast messin' around with the settings on that JoLida phono stage.
They may mean total capacitance which would include that of the tonearm cable. So you probably already have 50-100pf in-line. But actually I am surprised they spec any as it does not matter for true MC cartridges. I'll bet they just through that in there (along with the 47k spec) so that the average guy with a phonostage would feel comfortable with the numbers; i.e. marketing BS.
-Bill
The jd100a is good if you want to add tube flavor to your average ss system. It is however incredibly vieled. Definetly not the right aproach for a phono stage in my opinion. I called it though!
I agree 100% that the JD100 is a great way to add some tube warmth and otherwise MIA soundstage to a typical or underachieving SS system. Used in those systems, in a word I'd call its effect "revolutionary". It really is the bomb when coupled to a surround receiver and even some of the better Japanese, Mid-Fi amps.
I disagree about how veiled the sound is though. Incredibley is not a good adjective, perhaps "somewhat" or "comparably" would be more appropriate. It does sound better than many cheap players just in terms of tone and weight, without regard to clarity also. It is also unfair to compare the sonic output of the JD9 to that of the JD100, as well as the value each represents. Their only similarity is the vacuum tube output and the heavy casework. The JD9 is much more affordable and not only serves a different function, but handles it differently. The JD100 CD player has a true, dual 12AX7 tube gain stage and uses no op-amps in its output section. So it has a more full sound and is somewhat more veiled than the sound of the JD9. This is appropriate considering the different challenges facing the different formats (analog and digital) and I believe the implementations were therefore well chosen.
-Bill
Perhaps I am putting some of the faults of the 12ax7 on the Jolida. Also the fact that I can't find a CD player PERIOD that comes close to sounding as good as vinyl. I also can't say how the jd9 sounds as I have never heard it. I just made a guess. Nice work though.
you the same guy who said of the JD9, "Could it be the tubes are a buffer and not amplifying? If so I'm glad I didn't buy one."Perhaps you can point to a resource that articulates the universal ills of buffer stages in circuit design, or at least something that would help us make sense of your rational.
I can say in advance the it had better be pretty convincing since the idea of making disparaging remarks about audio components one has never even heard doesn't bode well if the idea is to inspire confidence in ones opinions, quite the opposite actually!
I said what I said based on my experience with tube CD players. Any resonable person should be able to tell I have never heard the JD9. Hence "I'm glad I never bought one". You on the other hand are obviously a troll. I really doubt anyone who has read this thread considers you credible.
your next phono stage commentary based upon your experience with CDPs ... tube or otherwise.Oh, and do let me know when you post on circuit design, buffer stages or otherwise, I'm sure to learn a great deal from that as well!
The question has come-up here a lot and so I hope that will help to put some of it to rest. Many people don't care for digital sound and when you have a really nice analog system it isn't easy to find a good CD player that you feel can convey the same warmth and natural sound. A lot of people find the Jolida unit to be close to this goal. It is hard to get out there and hear a lot of the offerings for many people so their choices and opinions are often limited by their experience. You will find an excellent CD player that you can live with if you keep up the search. They will never be as fun to handle and to read-over though!
-Bill
I mistakenly assumed that additional signal gain using tubes was amplification. Apparently it's generally known as "buffering" and not amplification. You were right; I was wrong.And as for the quality of the sound using that buffered phono stage, I updated my system's description accordingly. Check it out.
don't do anything rash please.
Tom
The fellow over at Response Audio says the following about the tube stage in the JD-100:"Where some other tube CD players use a 'buffer' stage, the Jolida JD-100 is actually a gain stage for the tube output section."
As he modifies the player I've a suspicion he knows what he's taking about; actually a look inside the JD-100 increases my confidence as well.
--
As far as your evaluation of sound goes, well I think you missed the boat on that one, IMHO of course, such things being subjective after all.
Well I'm not the expert. I just heard here on the asylum it was a buffer. I could be wrong. But I don't think I am. I just sold my jd100 at a 400 dollar loss. I just couldn't get it to sound good consistently. On some cd's some of the time it was great in a colored ans vieled way. I got tired of constntly rolling tubes in it. Alot of people like it though. I'm not just picking on the Jolida but other buffered players also.
I don't like tube output CD players much either, so we agree there. I also agree that it can sound very nice and that many people will find it to be awesome in their systems. I don't like the "wooly bass" and "soft focus" they deliver either and find it a typical tube balancing act by trading those deficiencies for greater sense of presence (soundstage depth), and a blooming midrange and warmer top end. It all boils down to what floats your boat and what works best in your system. Your sonic analysis and weariness from tweaking are true to form but the technical bit was off a touch.
-Bill
as some sort of authority I've got no problem with what you say, e.g. that his "... sonic analysis and weariness from tweaking are true to form", etc.For example an astute participant of this forum will have gained a good deal about you sonic preferences to *not* be surprised that, for example, the JD-100 and the JD9 *aren't* your top picks.
Nothing wrong with that, e.g. we have those that feel the OC9 is shrill and unlistenable who prefer the fatter/fuller 103 sound, those who feel the OC9 is excellent with a refined top end and great resolution across the band who prefer it over the fatter/fuller 103 sound. Similarly between a JD9 and a Rogue Stealth there would be divided opinion.
It's all good. But I do find it more than a little annoying when detractors of one sound vs. another come up with half-assed technical justifications, or attempt to come off as *knowing* authorities. Decency demands a little humility, a courteous IMHO, etc. Within those boundaries one can still project strong feelings and opinions.
---
Back to the JD-100, IMHO, it does benefit from effort in tweaking, in particular the power cord and vibrational control. I found these to give me stable wonderful sound. If the hobby urge strikes I may be inclined to try some other tubes (e.g. EHs) but for now I really like the stock ones.
That's pretty funny really. I mean, I hope you are not the "pot calling the kettle black" here afterall. I would appreciate it if you would simply consider my experience; how's that? :-)
You are correct that I have my preferences as do others but keep in mind that I also have the ability to do A/B comparisons with a plethora of products, all of which are at hands reach. I also have a very straightforward way of describing things as you may well have picked-up because I don't always just relate the good things about products that I sell but also their weaknesses if they have them. I definately go out of my way to defend products that I feel have been maligned unjustly and I don't feel that is unwarranted at all. It merely keeps everyone honest or informed, whatever the case may be. Being an open forum, you see that you are also welcome to disagree with anything that I may reflect from my experience. That does little to change my experiences, so IMHO may be appropriate in many cases.
In this particular instance which you have taken interest in, I do agree with the other posters opinion as being not only commensurate with my own, but also that of others and even with measurement. I did not agree with everything he said, so I hope you can see that I was being very straightforward and honest rather than slapping a "buddy" on the back. So you don't have to agree with either of us. Rather than question my integrity (forgive me if this was not your point) I would hope that you would simply add your comments and supporting argument.
I do understand your argument here about the beauty being "in the ear of the beholder" and I have said that many times myself here and elsewhere. I can never select a component for an individual or a customer but only provide them with my experiences and recommendations. I thought that I gave it a rather well balanced "micro review" here in response to comments made and so I am a little surprised by your response, but so be it. I wanted to point out the fact that it was indeed a true tube gain stage which has been an object of contention before. We can all take from it what we will.
-Bill
feet on the ground. I have noticed the odd poster likes to solicitor your opinion and then, after receiving the judgement, behaves as if he's gotten an answer from one who walks on water.BTW, regarding the "plethora of products" your not suggesting you change product lines as quickly as the stereotype fickle audiophile that makes changes monthly, are you?
Something occured to me after I posted my last message. Maybe you mistook the subject line of my post ("you're 1 for 2") as being a referal to the immediatly proceeding post or my discussing of both pro and con of the JD100 That was not why I titled it "1 for 2" at all, but rather because he had assumed that both the JD9 and the JD100 were tube buffered, when in fact only the JD9 is.
Anyway that aside, I do get a lot of private email from people who genuinely do respect my opinion or simply agree with it. That doesn't make me any form of diety surely. I am of most humble means yet have rather stong convictions when based on empirical evidence, which a personal visit to my shop would verify. It is nice to get some positive remarks from readers here yet I don't let it go to my head. I learn a lot from others also. I don't reflect that so much as I always prefer to try things for myself. That is why I am always advising people to go out and listen rather than trying to horde information and make decisions from text found online. You may or may not be surprised but I get a lot of people who visit my shop who have read some things that they take for granted and so have some preconceived notions of, yet then find them to be false after seeing or hearing first hand here. The Grado/Rega hum has to be my favorite "audio urban legend" as nearly everyone who hears a demo is struck by the quality of sound and lack of hum after reading so much about it. Some of my customers disagree about particular sonic favorites of mine and have their own. I try to listen to them and point them in the direction that I feel best serves their tastes and encourage them to listen to others just to keep their bias in check. For instance, I may favor a particular speaker and some customers simply like another. Everyone hears differently in regards to tone, I feel. Some people are also more sensitive to distortion than others.
As far as product line changes here, that is very far from reality. I have ditched only a few companies due to their being poor business partners or simply not having a reliable product (or both in two cases) while only a couple of others have fallen by the wayside due to a lack of demand for the product even though I liked it. I have been in business for 8 years and actually most of the lines that we offer have been here since the first year. I have added a few others every few years, but kept the list as short as possible. I don't like the trend of many online or mail-order houses that advertise a huge list of names and then not actually carry anything as it is both deceptive and self-serving. When customers arrive at our door they can expect to be able to hear much of what they see at our website and I actually have some in-store photos posted to prove that although they are a bit dated. When I say that I have a lot of CD players to compare here, I mean that we have no fewer than 11 on demo here right now.
-Bill
Tom
I saw your thread earlier, perhaps two of them. I keep seeing it come-up again and again so I thought I would post a few pics to stop all the guess work from those that know what they are looking at and to help those understand that do not. It's a beefy little amp in a full size chassis with decent performance at a more than fair price and it compliments their tube integrated amps very well both sonically and aesthetically. Typical Jolida stuff.
-Bill
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