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I find myself in need of a phono preamp [I sold my integrated and my new preamp is a line stage]. I've searched thru Audiogon and nothing is really jumping out at me. I guess that leaves new as I really need one as soon as possible [don't want to be without my records while waiting for a good deal to pop up on Audiogon]. Any suggestions in the $500 range? My table is a KAB modded SL1210Mk5 with an AT440ML cartridge. Thanks!
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Not the best or worst, just the one i'm using for the last three years. It costs 500 EUR new, i bought it slightly used for 300 EUR.
The moment the needle touched the vinyl i knew it was beyond comparison with the built in phono stage of the M.Fidelity preamp i had in those days. It will play ANY cartridge, low or high, and you don't have to open it to make the changes. Just turn it over and you will find many options underneath! Finally, it can be upgraded with larger power supplies.
It really brought my system to a new level. It may seem cheap, but if you get obsessive about the power supply, enclosure, connectors, etc. it can add up. It'll still be far less than $500. I think I put about $150 or so into mine. It would have been worth it at three times the price...
prrrrrrrrrrrr
can you give me any hints about upgraded parts you might have used?
this is my first diy. there are a lot of stuff about paper in oil caps, etc, etc. i already have a ph pre so i have time to build this one at leisure.
I used silver wire for the signals (I don't remember the gauge, but I got it at homegrown audio), RCA jacks from Partsexpress, and I recently changed the output opamp to a 2604. I don't know what difference the RCAs or silver wire made, as I had them from the start. I can tell you that the 2604 made the highs cleaner and crisper. Actually, a bit crisper all around, too.As for caps, I haven't upgraded them yet, but I've heard excellent things about using Auricaps in C1-C6.
Let me know if I can be of any help.
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My wife and I love our Musical Fidelity X-LPS V3 ($400), and did a good amount of research before buying it. It is certainly one worth looking at. Great reviews. You can get it "free" for a few weeks from Audio Advisor, too, to try it out.
Just ordered one from AA. The price is right and I've heard nothing except good things about them. Thanks for reminding me!
I have V3 also,not yet run in and sounds great.
- CI-Audio VPP-1: $300 or $450 with the VAC-1 power supply. Simply amazing at this price point.- Cambridge Audio Azur 640P: $200 and VERY close to the CI-Audio in terms of sonics. A tad less bass authority and a little more open top end with less adjustability when compared to the CI-Audio but a freakin' steal when you can pick it up online for around $175 shipped.
If you want to go used, I'd highly suggest seeking out a Dynavector P-75 especially if you ever consider running a low output moving coil.
I have a real nice perfect conditon Lehman Black Cube with PWX PowerSupply FS for $400. Contact me if interested.
Plenty of settings, dynamic, quiet - even without the Volcano II power supply.
... the Bottlehead Seduction is awfully, umm... seductive... given its price.Jim Hagerman's "Bugle" is also well-worth consideration, based on all accounts.
'course, you have to build them yourself, but that's just added value, if you ask me!
From another happy Seduction owner.It would be nice if you could audition one and see if you like it (or for that matter any one you're considering buying). Head over to the Bottlehead forum and see if there's one in your area. Most Bots love to share/show off their amps.
The Seduction took my system to a much higher level and I coundn't be happier with way the Seduction sounds. If you can build a kit (and it's not that hard), for way under $500. I don't think it can be beat.
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Henry
It appears to be a SS phono preamp with a tube buffer output which probably accounts for extremely high gain specifications. unless the specs are wrong I can't imagine this thing working comfortably in most systems. Perhaps they designed it to work with an "integraed" amp which is just a passive input control in front of a tube amp.But it could be interesting for those wanting to go passive preamp.
I'm using the JoLida JD 9 and from my limited perspective (have always used stock amp/receiver mm phono stages), it's a very nice sounding phono stage. The gain is incredible. (Yes, those specs are for real!) It has plenty of versatility with multiple combinations of mm/homc/lomc, impedance/resistance, capacitance, and gain. And with a tubed output you can customize the sound using different tubes. Something I have yet to try, but am looking forward to.Right now I'm breaking in a mmf-7/Eroica H combo using 1k ohm, 100 pF, and 85 dB gain. It's a good starting point to help ease the initial brightness of the new cartridge/new phono stage. After 20 hours or so it's starting to sound nice and smooth with lots of detail. With that amount of gain I can leave the volume settings at similar levels for both the phono stage and cd playback. Not a big deal, but it is convenient.
Using the info provided by Jolida with a typicl MM cartridge, a Shure V-15 for instance, the voltage at the line level output of the phonostage is 11 volts!Using the 95dB gain with a 0.25mV MC cartridge yields 14 volts output!
For comparison the Bellari with "only 30dB" gain yields 1.1 volts with the 3.5mV Shure. Hey what do you know that's just right!
Signal peaks can be as much as 20-dB greater than a cartridge's rated output at 5-cm/s. This would raise your 0.25-mV MC from 14-V to 140-V. I seriously doubt this unit has any greater gain than 65 or 70-dB for low-output MCs and 45 or 50-dB for MMs.
You are correct, sir! That's what I've been trying to figure out myself. I posted this question previously and didn't get very far. I've yet to call JoLida to ask about it.When I tried to use the "line stage" output (HIGH OUT) the gain was so high you couldn't use it. But when I instead used the "RIAA" level output (LOW OUT) it's more reasonable. Still higher than typical phono stage gains (at least from what I've read and others mentioned) but within a more normal range. So that's what I'm using and it sounds very good.
Don't know what to say other than the HIGH OUT may be, as you said, for passive preamps and their "RIAA" output is actually closer to everyone elses line output. Here's what JoLida's owner's manual states:
"LO out: 200 Millivolt output for use with preamplifier separates."
"HI out: 1.8 volt output to integrated amplifiers or line stage preamplifiers."Doesn't add up from my limited experience. What do you make of it?
20dB (ten times) which is what one would "make up or add to" from a typical line level preamp.But the low output is "painfully low" even when using a line level preamp.
I betcha one of the outputs goes through the final tube stage and the other doesn't. That's what is called the "token tube" circuit.
Garth, you got me worried about the low output bipassing the tubes so I just called JoLida. Very helpful and willing to talk about their product(s).They designed the JD 9 to be VERY flexible, able to handle just about any mm/homc/lomc cartridge and pre/passive/power/integrated combination you can think of. BOTH high and low output run through those 12AX7 tubes. It's designed so the high output can be used with passive preamps or integrateds with passive gain (such as the Creek integrateds) and the low output can be used for higher gain preamps/integrateds (such as my Musical Fidelity integrated) and either way you get the advantage of tubed output. Very nice.
So, the JoLida JD 9 provides high/low gain tubed output, mm/homc/lomc gain input, 4 levels of input resistance/impedance, and 4 levels of capacitance, easily accessed on the back panel. Very nice.
I'm a happy camper.
Tom
PS: They've got something interesting (I think) in the works.
Henry
the output appears to be VERY high, unless I'm completely and totally stupid, dumb, and incompetent. Well, that's besides the point. The specs JoLida states seem to be close to what I'm getting. And this guy also experienced (see link below):
Dumbo El Stupido.
I read the article and it seems to confirm both our suspecions. From the two words on the web site I figured the tube(s) was on the output after the actual phonostage output which probably gives that final 20dB boost difference.No offense but anyone buying this product thinking he is getting a tube RIAA phono amplifier was tricked. That doesn't mean it doesn't nor can't sound good. I happen to use a SS RIAA phono amp and SS line preamp.
To test whether the LOW OUT runs through those tubes, I guess I could buy another set and swap them out to see if I hear a difference. If I do, then it's as it should be. But if I don't, then 1) there's no difference in sound between the tubes I try, or, 2) there is but I can't hear the difference, or, 3) the low out does not go through the tubes, or, 4) both 1 and 3, or, 5) both 2 and 3.Maybe someone else with a JoLida JD 9 that does have a spare set of 12AX7 tubes could try testing the LOW OUT to see if it is in fact a tubed output.
Tom
Just turn off the unit and pull the tubes. Turn it bac on and if both are dead then it does indeed go through the tube output in each case.
I pulled the tubes (they're Electro Harmonix tubes by the way) and sure enough it appears that both HI OUT and LO OUT use the tubes as explained to me by JoLida.And then it gets interesting. The outputs were not dead. But both had much less (relative) gain and were noisy, sort of like a gentle breeze across a microphone. I put the tubes back in and the rich full detailed sound returned.
So yes, Virginia, the JoLida JD 9 has TUBED output for both output levels.
a thought did occur to me about the seemingly odd occurance of sound coming from both outputs without the tubes in place...Could it be (I may be crucified for this, but) that with the tubes removed there is a bias voltage difference appearing in the circuit and perceived as if it were a signal, when it isn't?
[flame shield status= up]
Garth,
Several inmates have them and recommend them highly.
Henry
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I believe I saw a Grado ps for $350 or so (not affiliated, etc...) on A'gon. Might not be a bad way to go.There's been some buzz on the Bellari tubed unit here, do a search.
I believe Music Direct carries the Graham Slee line, they have a well regarded unit for under $300.
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