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Hi,The time to replace my ageing Ortofon MC1 Turbo (high output MC) had come.
After reading some very good reviews, I decided to treat myself with three times more expensive Shure V 15Vxmr. It is supposed to be a natural match to my retro vinyl setup - a Thorens TD126MkI and SME 3009 s2 improved. Phono stage is a Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 SE.My new cartridge needs some break-in period.
How long?
How should it sound brand new and what changes in sound breaking-in will bring?My first impressions are mixed...
Shure sounds more musical that Ortofon and the bass is fuller, firmer and stronger.
But, treble is problematic. There is some lack of high frequency resoulution, cymbals are a bit splashy, dull, lifeless... Music sounds as if I put a veil in front of my speakers.I immediately suspected that VTA was not correct.
When I mounted and adjusted the cartridge, I did set it visually since it always worked for me in the past.
Since it seemed that my usual approach was not working this time, I raised the arm quite high, some 5mm from its initial horizontal position and gradually started to lower it in steps.
Unfortunately, I couldn't hear any significant improvement.
I tried it with dynamic stabilizer brush on and off - no deal breaking difference... (did change the tracking force accordingly)
I actually prefer the sound with the brush in operating position - somehow it is more relaxed.I started to compare my vinyl to my CDs. I am a big Bowie fan and have all his 70's albums on high quality German pressings and also on these latest 24bit remastered CDs. I ended liking the CDs better!!!
Slightly better resolution and better treble. The rest is pretty much indistinguishable. My CD player is Rotel RCD 1072.Any thoughts?
I hope that it is only a matter of breaking in!
On the other hand, I don't remember having this kind of experience with my previous carts (which were mostly Ortofon though).
I even bought a spare stylus, since Shure ceased the production of V 15V...Thanks in advance,
Aleksandar
Follow Ups:
Hi,
I concur with your assesement regarding the Shure v.s. CD. The Shure lacks air and ambiance and has a percieved limited HF response. Some CD's sound better,while other LP's sound better in my setup.But in GENERAL, After prolonged listening to LP's, CD's sound clearer and more open which eventually becomes irritatingly clinical. After prolonged listening to CD's and switching to the Shure, LP's sound more organic and warmer which eventually becomes a bit boring.
If capacitance does indeed solve the problem, I would appreciate a post of your result, I would be very interested :).
You have received good advice regarding the breaking time and capacitance. IMHO, this Shure really sound's best with a TOTAL capacitance of 250 picofarads, and this has to include the capacitance from your headshell leads to the phono plugs at the end of your tonearm cable AND the capacitance of your moving magnet phono preamp section.Phono preamp capacitance can range anywhere from 50 picofarads to over 400 picofarads and the total capacitance of your tone arm leads and phono cable can also widely vary. Many people with moving magnet cartridges never bother to optimize the total capacitance seen by their cartridge because most preamp and receiver manufacturers do not specifiy the capacitance of their phono preamps (when's the last time you've seen this spec noted in manufacturers specifications?) and many people don't specifiy the total capacitance of their tone arm wiring and phono cable.
Having a moving magnet cartridge see a capacitance too high or too low can result in the cartridge sounding either too bright or too dull if your hearing is acute enough and if your system is revealing enough.
Some will never hear this effect while others will are very sensitive to these changes.
My advice would be to let the cartridge break in and find out what the total capacitative load is that is being seen by your Shure cartridge, and see if you can tweak it to get it close to 250 picofarads.
My phono preamp's (Graham Slee, GramAmp 2 SE) capacitance is 150 pF.My SME was rewired with Van den Hul MCS - 150 M cable.
http://www.vandenhul.com/cable/mcs-150m.htm
capacitance is not statedCable from tone arm to preamp is Van den Hul D - 502 HYBRID
http://www.vandenhul.com/cable/d-502-h.htm
capacitance is 75pF per 1 meter. I have 1.2 meters cable lenght, so it should be 90pFTogether with preamp's 150pF it makes it 240pF, leaving a reserve of 10pF for tone arm internal wiring (which is unknown).
Am I OK regarding capacitance?
Should I also include the capacitance of the cable from my phono preamp to my amp (Cyrus III with Cyrus PSX-R power supply)?
Capacitance for a phono cartridge would include the sum of the total capacitance for all connections from the rear of the pins on the phono cartridge to the input of your phono preamp PLUS the rated capacitance of the phono preamp itself.So, this would typically include:
1. Capacitance for the leads going from the pins on the back of your phono cartridge to the rear of the headshell (if they are separate leads).
2. Capacitance for the wiring in your tonearm, from the headshell to the bottom of your tonearm.
3. Capacitance for the cable from the bottom of your tonearm to the input of your phono preamp.
And
4. Capacitance for the phono preamp itself.
The sum of 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = Total Capacitance "seen" by your phono cartridge. For a Shure V-15xMR, this sum should be 250 picofarads for optimal performance, according to the manufacturer.
Capacitance for the cables connecting your preamp to your power amp or other components will not affect the capacitance seen by your phono cartridge.
Hope this helps - You would be amazed at the number of so-called high-end dealers selling good turntables who DO NOT sell moving magnet cartridges with their turntables so they don't have to understand and deal with this. They simply say MC's are the best and MM's are low-priced trash, but no generalization like this is true.
There are both good and bad MC's and MM's - It just requires more knowledge to properly terminate a good MM cartridge, IMHO.
An aside: Many low-priced digital multi-meters will measure capacitance. I purchased one closed out by Radio Shack two years ago for under $20 that will measure capacitance and you don't have to open anything up to make this measurement.
The 1980's V-MR model had a flat frequency response. I still have the Stereo Review test report. In comparison, the VxMR was "reconfigured for a warmer sound". That's a quote from Shure themselves. And, judging from all that I've read and heard, some VxMR's are even warmer than other VxMR's. But that hasn't been confirmed.So even after you adjust the VTA and fiddle with the capacitance and let it break-in, the VxMR may and probably will still sound a bit warm. That is, assuming your phono stage is not "bright" in the first place.
there seems to be a misconception about capacitance. With most mm carts, the higher the capacitance the more of a peak in the response, the frequency of which is dependant on the inductance of the coils and the total loading capacitance. This is called 'tanking'. Hagerman has a nice webpage with an applet for easy calculations, but in practice, the amount of peaking is far less than the data and graphs might lead you to believe. I have noticed relatively minor but noticeable effects. Follow the recommended loading for the cartridge, as the manufacturer calculates the value that usually gives the flattest, most extended response, but you can increase the amount of capacitance and perhaps add a little bit of peaking in the response to lift the high-end.
I thought the sound of my V15VxMR was OK until I upgraded to an AT OC9 ML/II.
I used to do the same CD/LP comparison and thought my vinyl sounded somewhat dead on top compared to the CD.
I remember trying to convince myself that this is just how vinyl is supposed to sound so just live with it.
Turns out the V15 top-end was slightly rolled off and dull sounding but I just didn't realize how much until I got the new AT cart.
With the other components in my audio system my OC9 worked out great delivering just enough of that high-end sparkle I was looking for.-Dale
First of all in my experience the V15Vmr is the most tonally neutral of the V15's when presented with the correct capacitance load.Also, VTA is extremely critical in getting the highs and image focus.
The V15 seemed to me to be more critical than most MM's in that regard.Another thing is that, and I am not putting you system down at all, Ortofons tend to be bright sounding. If you were happy with the highs coming from the Ortofon yuou might be inclined to prefer a brighter presentation or it may have been compensating for a less than optimal high frequency response elsewhere in your system.
In the end, a system is all about matching up strengths and weaknesses to achieve something close to neutrality...
Good luck in tinkering,
Ray
The V15s are very sensitive to cable capacitance. Too high and the treble suffers. If you can use a pair of low-capacitance ICs, by all means do so. That said, my V15VMR took about 20-30 hours before it really opened up.
HenryNecessity is a mother . . .
There is one litle mod which increases focus significantly, the old glue-blob trick. You put three little blobs of epoxy-resin (one on each side and one on the middle top) to bridge the distance between the removeable stylus and the cartridge body to achieve a semblance of a single-body construction like MCs. Don't put the glue inside the assembly to make it permanent, simply make little tiny glue-blob "bridges" (the size of a a small ant) over it so they can be simply snapped off with your fingernail or llight twisting when time comes to change. That and it does take a fairly long time for these Shures to burn in. But is is also a matter of presentation and listening habits: the Shure will never sound like an Ortofon, especially an Ortofon MC, as the Shure is the furthest thing from an MC, except the Grados. How do you deal with this and stay happy with the Shure? You have to listen for different things: the Shure will certainly be quite a bit more faithful tonally to the instruments (especially acoustic instruments and voices) than your Ortofon was or, indeed, your CD player, in fact, it may be the best cartridge in the world at tonal veracity (and other Shure V15s, the Shure "house sound"). Listen for these more subtle things and you'll start to be very impressed. The Shure will also beat the pants off your Ortofon and your CD player for ability to convey rhythms, especially really complex percussive works, and complex timing between, say, vocalists in cerain jazz works, ect. The Shure has rich, deep, fruity "real" bass, not the over-damped bass one gets from CD and cheaper MCs, and it'll take some time getting used to this (this really opens up after burning in). The Shure will never sound as "open" in the treble as your Ortofon, but in time, and with the glue blobs and burn-in, you may come to prefer it's more natural presentation, and its ability to hang on, again, to the music when things get really complicated. Just don't want to see you being disappointed after spending all that money: the key is listening in a different way, for different things, as the Shure is very different from what you're used to! It's an education, it was for me (this was the cartridge which eventually converted me from an MC man to an MM man), I ordered one just to find out what the controversy was about (some saying the Shure was crap, while others said it was the best on the planet).
just be sure it's carefully aligned. I seems to "like" an ever so slightly "tail-up" VTA. And I DO mean slightly.
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
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