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I never thought too much about radio until I got a Fisher 400 and was floored by how good the FM sounded. But I have retired the Fisher in favor of a modded Dynaco 70/PAS combo. So I find myself looking for a decent cheap reliable tuner. For all of those reasons I am leaning towards solid state. Radio work/alignment ain't my thing! But maybe I am thinking all wrong. So I seek y'alls sage advice. Let's call the budget $100 more or less. I live in a Metro area so DX isn't important. But I do have one favorite public radio station that has a very weak signal. Most car radios won't pull it in but I generally don't have a problem at home. Just that it's a weak station halfway close to strong ones. I guess that means I want decent selectivity??? I do have a elcheapo rat shack outside mounted radio/TV antenna. Anyhow, any and all advice appreciated...even it's only to tell me that I had better up my budget as I won't be satisfied with a lower priced offering(I mean do I need 5+ gangs?). AM would be nice to have for the occasional football game but isn't a necessity. Good sound quality is the most important thing. I have owned a slew of vintage solid stae recievers and also have a newer adcom preamp with tuner, none of which have ever impressed me enough to desire a dedicated tuner. But boy that Fisher 400 does, and i miss it.....but I don't care to use it with tape out or anything like that....really don't have the room to spare.
Follow Ups:
Let me put it to you like this ANTENNA ANTENNA ANTENNA. I screwed around with tuners only to realize if you don't have a big ass yagi in you attic or BETTER yet OUTSIDE on a rotor don't bother with to much of a tuner.I've been through a dozen tuners and have found very little difference in the $100-350 tuner. You will know the first spin of the dial if it's what you need. And you maybe in for some surprizes. Those highly recommended tuners pull in stations but sound like tin cans, the cheap ones sound like a symphony but couldn't pull in a station down the block. Trial and error mixed in with some reading from the link below will guide you.
I'm using a Dynaco FM-3. Before the antenna I never thought this tuner pulled in anything. But with the Yagi ($20 from radioshack) it's pulling in stations at a fair distance and with good seperation from adjacent stations too. "selling point" on that old FM-3. You can align it at home, with no instruments - Yep home alignment. The only thing I would recommend is SDS has some minor modification for the PEC module. It really helped sonically. And DO read the AVA page on the FM-3. Their recommendations for some basic cap changes were right on the money. Then I went through the unit and replaced all the out of spec resistors. My FM-3 signs.
The Sansui TU-515 if anything like the Tu-717 that I have is a wonderful tuner. But it does have a very "dry" SS sound to it. So you need an overly dynamic preamp/amp for it. But it will pull in stations from Mars and beyond.
Marantz makes tuners that are Ok. Not the best but VERY musical for what it does get.
But invest your energy on a Yagi and if possible outdoors on a mast. Or at least in the attic.
Beware tuners are a mania like cables
charles
enjoy the read
charles
Decent, cheap, reliable? How could you do better than a Dyna FM-3? And it matches.
brings a tear to my eye (break out da boots!) One couldn't get better, faster, service regardless of what they were willing to spend at any hifi store I have ever had the (mis?)fortune to visit. A big thanks you and a happy New Years to all of you and yours!
Russ
Scott 350 'C' or 'D' series are excellent tube type tuners. The 'C' or 'D' models are less expensive then the earlier style 'B' series, yet perform as well or slightly better. The Scotts are few dollars over your $100 budget, however worth it. Also, the lower voltages on the tubes makes for very long tube life. I expect these to double in price in a few years.
I think the one I have is a 350D. I was a throw in when I bought 2ea. 222D amps for $100.00. I haven't gotten it running yet, but I'm, hoping it will outshine my Yamaha CT-800 (which is very good).Do you have any idea why they less valued then their earlier counterparts? It seems to me that all but the very top tuners are undervalued, which is very good if you are a buyer.
Per the HH Scott site, just looks makes the 'B' series more desirable. The 'B' model has a round tuning knob amd 'golden era' front panel. The schematics are very simular between the 'B' & 'D' series with the multiplex decoder somewhat different on the 'D' model.This tuner is perfect for upgrades per my findings per the schematics (design). I believe with some simple details, this tuner should get a very quiet noise floor, ultra high sensitivity and high quality audio out. I should be modifying mine in a few weeks with some simple upgrades.
-I should be modifying mine in a few weeks with some simple upgrades.Please post when you do!
I will write a full review 'before' & 'after'. Tnx for your interest.
I think you've already answered your question: you miss the uniquely musical presentation of a fully tubed tuner.Selectivity and noise levels aside (the traditional weaknesses of tubed topology), I doubt that any solid state example will properly recreate that same sonic enviromment for you. SS is way less noisy with a better quieting threshold you say? My CD front end is vastly quieter than my vinyl rig. Guess which sounds better?
A tubed tuner with a top-notch front end is as sensitive as any SS model you'll ever find, usually more so. I've gotten hard to capture stations on a 500C with a butter knife for an antenna that a separate Magnum-Dynalab or Fanfare (not to mention an Onkyo or Yamaha) couldn't find with a large roofmount. That's the beauty of a magnificent Amperex flying in its prime. For enjoying distance on an uncluttered FM dial, high sensitivity is an essential ingredient, no doubt. But it's only about 10% as important as the antenna array and downlead in any DX setup. So don't expect ANY tuner to capture that obscure college band station if you have a garbage antenna SYSTEM (array AND downlead/distribution network). Recommendation number one might be to invest that first $100 in a better antenna and downlead.
If you really like the 400, then you would probably be enraptured with an FM-50B or KM-60, both of which can be had in the sub-$100 range, are superlative MPX performers and models of dependability. Scott also made some wonderful units, but are usually a little over $100 as there were fewer of them made or still extent. The Dyna FM-3 is another sub-$100 choice, but I find the above Fishers decidedly superior to it. One problem is that the prices are going up, as more and more folks discover the secret. A primo KM-60 used to be a $25 bargain. I can see the day coming when folks will be bidding $250 for them on Ebay.
But to get it right with any tubed choice, you may have to spring for a little cap and rectifier work, perhaps a few fresh tubes, and an alignment, after which it should be rock dependable for another 40 years.
Still onboard? I'm sure there are a line of SS tuner enthusiasts pointing out that you won't have to deal with any of that if you go SS.
Don't buy into the common myth that tubes are less reliable or more troublesome than SS models. It's all about the instrument's age - ANY instrument. Yeah, some black SS box may not need any service right NOW like a tubed unit will. However, EVERY electronic instrument, tube or solid state, requires reconditioning services after so many years. It only happens that most tubed instruments are just older than most solid state ones, so need that service sooner - usually now. In another several years, you may find yourself recapping that "maintenance free" vintage transistor tuner as it reaches the terminal age. And believe me, those SS models have one hell of a lot more electrolytics to replace than a tubed model. Did you know that SS units require realignment once you mess with them? And transistors DO wear out. Again, it's a matter of time. With a tubed model, you can do it all now and be ahead of the maintenance curve for a very long time.
People fear what they don't understand. A transistorized tuner is a real easy choice right now because they're newer, still "plug-and-play" and they purportedly sport better "specs". And my nephew's Sony HT receiver has better specs than my 800B. Which would you rather listen to? The typical enthusiast really doesn't understand the relative circuit simplicity and strengths of tubed instruments, so there is a natural, but completely unjustified, prejudice against using them.
But the real and ultimate proof of an instrument's worth is always in the listening, as you seem to have discovered.
I got a surprise yesterday while cleaning up a little Sony STR6050 that I picked up on ebay. Great wood case that was as dull as dishwater until it was oiled. Doubt if it puts out more than 25 watts per channel, but there is a four gang FM tuner in this little puppy that pegged the meter on all locals using rabbit ears in my basement shop!
or maybe I should say you read me like a book! I firmly feel that tubes are more reliable, not to mention more sonically pleasing and enjoyable. But somehow I allowed myself to be mislead into thinking that some of the better solid state units offered superior performance in every sense of the word. I thank you sincerely for your sage advice and guidance. I think I am back on the right path now!
I'm kinda rural so my problem is pulling stations.My wife has a Yamaha CT-800 that pulls well as does a Sony 5140, so I'm stuck with these until I change to a better antenna.
But that's not what you asked.A Marantz 115B sounds real nice and my Sansui Tu-999 sounds virtually identical, probably work real well in your local.They won't pull distance, or at least in my situation.They have a little warmer sound than either the Sony or Yamaha.The Sony's actually a little hard sounding.Both the Sony and Yamaha have 75 ohm connections , I wonder if that has something to do with their pulling capability?
I just got a Pioneer SX-828 and the tuner on it is more tube like than anything else I have.
Gordy,Do you have the owner's manual and schematics for the SX-828? I'm fixing one for a friend, and so far he can't find his.
Sorry, Jerry, haven't a thing on it.
Look at the Sansui TU 517. In a close area like yours it would be very good and the price should be close to $100. I have on but have switched to on of its big brothers.
The FM-3 is not the way to go since the adjacent channel rejection ability is not that good. On the cheap, look at the KLH 18 or last night I saw on eBay a Radio Shack equiv. small, round dial, etc. Don't remember the model offhand but do remember these were not too bad. Both are small in physical dimensions.
I just recently went through a flock of less expensive tuners, both new and used. I ended up with a used Onkyo T-4087. 1989-90 vintage, 5 gang equivalent, excellent selectivity, very nice sound. It has Onkyo's 4 mode APR system where the tuner automatically selects from high and low sensitivity and selectivity and high blend to get the best recetion for each station. My problem here was mainly multipath problems because of a huge water tower 180 degrees away from my favorite station. The 4087 fixed that problem beautifully. But it also has excellent selectvity and sensitivity and does DX very well. I found several regional stations I never knew were there, tucked in close to stronger ones. The sound quality made my late model Yamaha tuner sound like a telephone.The tunerinfo web site hasn't tested the 4087, but they have nice things to say about it. The pricing on eBay should be close to your budget. If you buy from a shop as I did, you'll pay more; but with generally better peace of mind, that's worth something.
Have you thought about the Dyna tuner? Sonics are excellent, and it would match your PAS/St70 combo. It is tubed, and sounds wonderful. I have had a number of tuners, and though I prefer my MR67 to the Dyna, there is not THAT much difference. Certainly not enough to warrant the difference I paid in price, but that is another story.
Just my 2 cents.
Good Luck!
Valis
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