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In Reply to: How do the less expensive Rogues measure up? posted by Frihed89 on March 23, 2006 at 13:46:40:
The Cronus is probably one of the very best values in audio, period. It is a fantastic sounding piece and because it is made very near our shop, we can sell it for little more than Chinese made amplifiers of the same power rating! They are literally hand built in Pennsylvania and the parts and construction quality is great as is the service. We have the Atlas and Metis set-up here and it is one of the best sounding systems in the shop. A lot has to do with placement I believe as we have a lot of very nice systems here but nonetheless it sounds very good and is not the most expensive by a good stretch. In fact, I will say that it is the entry level gear that really makes the Rogue brand so attractive as other US companies have nothing for it. They just can't (or at least they don't) do it at that price. Now, the larger, cost no object products from any of these companies are all nothing short of awesome. They most certainly are in the same class and sonically, I prefer them. Mark O'Brien was just in here the other day and hand delivered the new Perseus preamp. He is a nice gentleman to do business with and fun to just hang out with as well. Funny timing, but Lew Johnson was also in here literally just the week prior to mark's visit. Both guys live only hours away!
-Bill
Follow Ups:
Interesting. How does it compare to the Jolida 302B? That unit is importable from Hong Kong for less than 1K.What do you give up technologically in the Preamp section with the Cronus compared to the Metis? What is the difference in what you hear from the combo vs. the integrated? Have you heard the Atlas with other preamps? Solid state? I mean how special is the mating of these two?
Man, you bring up a lot of stuff in one post. First, let me erase the notion that you (or anyone else) can get Jolida equipment from HK directly. Be advised that any product that is branded Jolida and being sold directly from Asia is grey market and is NOT the same quality product as that which is sold in the US or Europe. If you are in doubt, speak to the Jolida president, Mike Allen, I have. He is going to make a move to stop that practice very soon as it is creating huge problems for consumers. The amps are not servicable and have been failing. They also carry NO WARRANTY, none. If you send one back to HK to have it repaired, you may never see it again! These are being sold through Chinese dealers, not Jolida so don't expect any type of service or honesty. They are making money off of shipping only because a few dollars is worth considerably more there. They still can't afford to help you after a sale and have no motivation to do so. The product is designed for use in China/SE Asia only and does not use the same quality components, most importantly the transformers.
Now on to things that we know to be reliable and repeatable. The Rogue Audio Cronus is actually a little cleaner sounding than the Metis/Atlas combination. First, the Cronus integrated uses only a single 12AU7 as a preamp tube and it is inches away from and directly soldered to the next stage of amplification. That is an extremely short signal path and provides only a little more warmth and depth to the outstanding sounding Atlas amplifier, by being built into the Atlas chassis. The Metis uses a pair of 6SN7 tubes and has a somewhat softer focus at the frequency extremes. Mark does a great job of not letting them sound soupy or rolled-off but they still are not quite as tightly controlled or as extended. The new Perseus preamp uses the 12AU7 tubes, so you can have the flexibility of separates there and still use that tube. In addition, the Perseus offers a fully flexible phonostage that is very similar to the one in the stand alone Stealth phonostage.
I have used the Atlas amplifier with a Bryston BP25 solid state preamplifier to good effect. Very smooth and neutral with only slight softening of bass dynamics which is HUGELY impressive from a 55wpc EL34 based amplifier. Using a tube preamplifier of course provides a softer and more full sound at the expense of some added noise and compression at higher levels. You can't really compare these amps to the Jolida as they are another level all together. I mean, you can, but you will see and hear why they are more expensive. You would actually have to compare the Cronus to the JD502B to get onto a level playing field in terms of power delivery and distortion. The Jolida amplifiers are actually power amplifiers with a set of passive controls on the front, so even more leveling of the field, you would be comparing the JD502B to the Atlas. I know you can't see the difference in transformers and such from looking at pictures on the net, but surely you can see the features such as the built-in bias meter, fusing for each output tube, etc. The quality level is better at every point from the circuit board material, to the resistors, chassis, etc and so on, not one part is equal. One other factor that may go unnoticed is that the Atlas amplifier uses the same output trannys as the Stereo 90! So the Jolida JD502B is a great sounding budget amp with budget parts (it's a freak of nature and a miraculous overachievement if you ask me) but the Atlas is in the big leagues for only a few dollars more. Hope that helps.
-Bill
Thanks Bill,That's a very thoughtful reply and a lot to digest. I'm going to follow up on this.
My comment about the HK Jolida was partly tongue and cheek. But I have met a guy who imports stuff from China and I must say that the designs, internal construction and build quality of some that I have seen (Meolody and Miexing) are very good. But i think the iron is suspect. You know when you buy something like a TT or an AN you can see right off that these are some seriously heavy duty output transformers. You say the Atlas/Cronus transformers are quite good? Same as the Stereo 90? How come the iron looks bigger in the Stereo 90? (How many triode watts?)
Persius? I don't see that. Is it a mate for the Atlas?
I can't speak for all products made in China, but specifically the Jolida as I have known Mike for years. He owns the factory there and so he knows exactly what comes out of it.
The Atlas and Cronus amplifiers use the exact same transformers as those in the Stereo 90. They don't appear as large in the photo because of the way that they are mounted. They are recessed into the top cover and so the chassis hides the bottom 2" of them! The Atlas and Cronus are not triode switchable like the other amps. They are both 55w ultralinear designs and the circuit is optimised for that. It still has a built-in bias meter and fuses for each output tube but they had to trim costs somewhere to get that low with the selling price. It would also not make much sense to have it in triode as it would then be only 25w and that makes it quite limited in application. The 55wpc is quite robust and will drive most loudspeakers to very high levels. It is so practical, you'd swear it were Scottish. The Perseus is very new and I have one of if not the first production unit here, as I said it was hand delivered by the designer. It will drive any of their amps and will most likely replace the 66. I'll attach a photo of it. In this photo, it is driving the new Bryston 2BSST and being fed by the Cambridge Audio 540Cv2. The Speakers are ReVox. It is a very nice sounding system and no two components by the same company!
-Bill
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