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In Reply to: 800w tube amps posted by Keith Tan on September 17, 2004 at 10:57:29:
Keith,This kind of product is always interesting. I remember the impressive VTL "Ichiban" that boasted a kind of two story design- four stacked chassis for "two part monblocks". The many. many 6550s- I think 16 per side made 200W triode or 2000 in prentode- I don't know, but it was high power for it's class of operation. I could be misremebering- but it made an memorably impressive sound- as long as the preamp was not also VTL.
"Ichiban" is supposed to be the Japanese for "primo"- top level quality. So, I think the answer to your question of who will buy a $140,000 amplifier is answered by the Ichiban predeccesor- there are a few very wealthy people that search out the best in whatever they enjoy. And these are a narrow, targetted markewt. And the target market in this case is Asia- as I think can be gleaned from the marketing so far.
In reading the review on the maker's website- the language is very stilted and awkward- very unlike the smooth reviw style of US audio magazines. Also, there are no English colloquials, etc. With he reference to everything in how many yen it is 10,000,000! and Japanese house wiring limits, I think we can assume this is a translated Japanese review.
Those amplifers- if they ever exist***- will go in a large part to the environs of Tokyo.
***The blurry distant, dark photo and lack of meaningful or extended description and specification causes me to wonder if this isn't some kind of prototype that's announced and if there enough bites and noise about it they'll make 20. When you have a real product that is available there would gushing explanations of all the impressive features and innovative circuitry- that gets 63W from a 6550!
I.e.. the company will have to create a market by testing. I shouldn't wonder if the maker won't eventually read this thread, this very post.
As for the apparently devisive issue of what would happen to such amplifiers, I agree completelty with the knowledgable, experienced, and long-time poster here- kentaja- who has every right to believe there will be a problem when a 6550 is making 63W instead of 32- which is already high-ish. Notice the difference between the life of tubes in ARC as compared to vintage McInotsh- where they seem to last forever. Being used to ARC, a company that in many areas seem to push tubes near their limits, I can see what happens when a tube rating and noise ansd microphnics parameters are pushed constantly- the very rugged Siemens 6922 might last only a couple of hundred hours in the phono section of an SP10.
But, though I shall probably never see an 800W triode amplifer in person, perhaps if I keep looking towards Beverly Hills, someday I'll see the glow of the fire one caused.
Cheers,
Bambi B
Follow Ups:
Hi BambiThanks for candid reply. "Ichiban" does specifically mean "Number 1" in Japanese.
Also, I have a reason to believe that these amps are a real product - I saw someone put a used pair up for sale on audiogon.
I also agree with kentaja that a tube's spec has to be respected with any circuit designs. Regardless of price, I might add.
Keith
Keith,Yes, "Ichiban" translates as "number one". And, thanks for your clarification. I am curious further- does Ichiban have the same connotation in Japanese as is said "We're Number One" - to mean "We're the best sports team"- for exmaple: number one team equals the best, highest ranked, top quality, etc? An American colloquial for this is "primo" from "prime" or first- number one.
If you've seen these for sale- and very fast to be be sold as used- then of course these are actual objects. My meaning in referring to them as "real products" is that:
1. These are have already been made in any quantity in advance of purchase, i.e. at least the manufacturer has a stock of them.
2. A real product would have have some distribution- that is dealers would have to have them in stock be able to demonstrate them. No one- NO ONE will buy these amplifiers except a very modest- "can't lose" price - "for $800 I'll try it" - without hearing them with euipment in the same league as the final system. Even those foolish will money will not buy before hearing as they are also the biggest bargain hunters and have to have confidence in the companies they want bargains from.
3. Lastly, a "real" product is that there is existing tooling and components to produce in quantity-and I would guess that almost all investment so far has been to produce and refine protoypes. A small company will not invest in tooling, a production line, design packaging, set up distribution, advertise expensively something that can't be actually purchased but only ordered to be made- before some idea of a market is established.There are every sign that the 800W triode amplifiers are not a "real product" as of yet- a bit towwards what the old dot commies called "varporware"- grand in the promises, the most amazing thing that could ever be made, but it's still not even in beta- "still two more bugs" those intrepid game designers would say.
In these senses of "real" as a product- the sensation so far is there is only one or two handmade sets of these amplifiers and the maker is trying to generate interest in something that does apparently work very well- in one review, but none are trully available,and there is probably little in the way of current tooling for production. if you call this company and ask for one- they will gladly accept your $140,000 and may stay up nights to make one- there musr be some serious enthusiasts behind the scenes to try this one on!
And a trmenedous amount of high decibel, deep bass, "effortless" sound to quote the review- fun- for six hours.
Soon, Tom Selleck will return in his helivopter and remove the reamaisn for a swift and repsectful burial.
A lot of fun to see this end of the eccentric audio world! Thanks for bringing this one to my attention. Also, I do not wish to discourage the maker in any way and wish this company every luck. I knew Bob hovland when he started his high end company and I so admire the energy that goes into these more extreme objects.
These kinds of adventures into the electrical limits -and astounding "showoff" price- help keep our brains operating fully!
Imagine: that the typical Japanese house does not have an electrical service capable of delivering the 4600W peak intake of electrons of the one stereo set!
Cheers,
Have you ever read the Japanese Language/Japan "only" tube audio magazines? I've seen pictures of homes that had been blueprinted specially for audio! One guy knocked a wall out so his huge concrete LF horns could have the necessary space and weight-support structure... others had "tube rooms" specially built with halon fire suppression and heremetical seals w/ climate control. These guys can go to Vegas and drop the cost of those amplifiers on ONE SPIN of Roulette. Spending $140,000 on an esoteric pair of amplifiers is less than nothing to such heavy hitters. If they amps suck, at least they have bragging rights for a few weeks as no one else will have that same amp in their circle.... then they can always commit the ultimate act of audio snobbery and use them as a home-theater subwoofer setup! :0)
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