Speaker Asylum

About time for a Paradox Post!

216.26.2.28

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Thread: Display Email Next ] [ Speaker Asylum ] [ FAQ ]

Tromatic

(A)

To all of you P1 owners, how are they working for you? Are they living up to expectations? Any tweeks, mods, stand, cable tips?
Matthew
P.S. Love mine. I've not heard anything better in a comparible size and design.

Follow Ups:

Re: About time for a Paradox Post! - mike_decock 07:31:49 08/01/02 (0)
Mine are less than a week old and they are sounding better every day as they break in. I'm blown away by the sense of realism and the music they create is so involving that you just don't worry about the sound. That's what it's all about.
I've got them mounted on Studio Tech SC-24 stands which are very rigid and I'll be filling them with sand or lead shot down the road. I'm using Cobalt Cable's Ultimate Speaker Cable running to my ASL Waves. I have also found that toeing them in straight towards the listener works really well for opening up the soundstage.
-Mike...
Re: About time for a Paradox Post! - calsaint 07:21:08 08/01/02 (0)
Even though Doc B's Paramour kits are coming in the mail sometime soon, and I realize I'll need some higher efficiency speakers to work well with them, I'll probably keep the Paradox 1s for use in a second system that I'll create "down the road". They have worked really well for me with all of the changes I have made in the rest of my system since I bought them (mine are about 8 months old).
steve
Re: You guys should hear the P3's!! nt - chriss 18:19:34 07/31/02 (0)
nt
Tweaks, mods... - Danny 14:01:11 07/31/02 (2)
You did say, "Any tweaks, mods, stand, cable tips?"
Well as many of you already know I have had some mods made to the woofers used in the Paradox-1's.
I spoke about them some in my forum at the harmonic discord: http://www.harmonicdiscord.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6600
I have been listening to a pair of Paradox-1's with the new woofer for a few days now. While much is still the same there are some clear cut differences that I really like.
If the P-1 was slightly to the forward side it is now slightly more to the laid back side. Overall presentation is more full bodied, more open, and more transparent.
I think there was still a hint of brightness before that is gone now. Part of this has to do also with a mod to the crossover network. I maximized the network to take advantage of the qualities of the new woofer, and the crossover point has been raised to 3,200Hz.
I noticed that a piano now sounded more real than before when performing an A/B listening comparison I did this morning.
Overall sound stage seams larger, and more involving. I find it hard to concentrate on subtle differences I may be listening for and getting drawn into the music. The response curve is no smoother than it ever was (flat), but they are smoother sounding and more easy to listen to.
Vocals are more full with the new woofer. They sounded a little to the thin side with the older woofer in comparison. Some of this also has to do with the better overall bass response of the new woofer.
Sensitivity is equal to before in the 700Hz to 1kHz range then the bass below that is up over a full db in an area that helps compensate for the baffle step loss of the 8" wide baffle. The response is a little stronger in the 2kHz and up region, with the new woofer, but is pulled down to the lower sensitivity level by the network.
See response measurement of the new woofer: http://www.gr-research.com/drivers.htm#gr130
I finally got the new info up on our site.
Now you guys are going to ask, what will it cost to upgrade to the woofer and new network?
Okay here is what it will in entail ...
Fortunately the inductor values remain the same, so there are no high dollar foil inductors to have to buy.
But, the cap values have changed and one cap has been added to the network that is in parallel with the woofer.
One resistor value has changed slightly too.
The tough part might be pulling out your old network to de-solder it and make the changes.
If you can re-use (and it depends on if you can de-solder it easily or not) the .1uF by-pass caps then the total for a pair of woofers, six caps and two resistors is only $64.00.
This does not include solder, heat shrink, or shipping charges.
How's that?
Danny Richie
- Wow... - jonbee 16:47:44 07/31/02 (0)
  Those are just the areas I felt could use a little help. "The check's in the mail." Thanks a bunch, as usual.
- Re: Tweaks, mods... - Tromatic 16:47:39 07/31/02 (0)
  I know that the tweeter is the killer. A few years down the road will you be able to repair/replace the tweeter if the worst happens?
  Thnaks,
  Matthew
They still are the best deal in audio I have seen in 30 years............ - Cut-Throat 13:25:59 07/31/02 (15)
I will never give mine up! They are used on a second system in my Great Room. Mostly for backround music, but even non audiophiles are impressed at the sound coming out of these!
The only reason I hesitate at all to recommend them, is that I'm not sure how many pairs Danny Richie has left.
I should have bought a couple more pairs last year when the unfinished cabinets were a special price!
Like jonbee has said - You can get better - You're just gonna have to pay a lot more!

Cut-Throat
- How many left you say? - Danny 14:49:55 07/31/02 (14)
  I have 16 tweeters left un-used (8 more kits).
  I have 12 Black painted Oak enclosures left (6 pair).
  I have one pair of Oak enclosure that have been stained in a light Reddish stain with clear coat. $50.00 each (special price).
  I have three pair fully assembled in Black Oak with earlier first order network. These are also braced. $400. a pair.
  I have one pair of fully assembled Paradox-1's in Black Oak with older GR-130 woofer, cryogenic treated components, and Teflon Silver plated Copper wire on the tweeter. It also has Blackhole 5. $600. for the pair.
  I have one pair fully assembled with Black Oak enclosures, with all the latest mods, new woofers, Blackhole, etc. $600. for the pair.
  And that is it.
  Danny Richie
  - What's the succession plan of P1 - rnhood 18:06:04 07/31/02 (13)
    8 kits ain't many.
    - What's next eh? - Danny 19:36:47 07/31/02 (12)
      Well I already have another model that is equally as good as the Paradox-1 just a little different in some ways. One of the best differences is it is less sensitive to room reflections and room placement than the Paradox-1. Also a little more forgiving of inexpensive electronics. Price of the kit alone is even better than the Paradox-1, and the enclosure options are endless.
      See here: http://www.gr-research.com/performer/av1.htm
      As for what is going to be the next step, the next level of performance, the speaker that raises the bar to a new level?
      Well I am working on it and it is very close.
      The prototype is not real pretty, but you get the idea....
      Danny Richie
      - Re: What's next eh? - mike_decock 06:45:31 08/01/02 (0)
        
        In Reply to: What's next eh? posted by Danny on July 31, 2002 at 19:36:47:
        
        I was one of the lucky ones who got to spend a little time with these speakers when Danny brought them to the Austin HT Forum meet. I don't know if the drool on my chin was too obvious that day, but there's definitely something special about these.
        
        -Mike...
      - Re: What's next eh? - Brian Bunge 20:01:37 07/31/02 (10)
        
        In Reply to: What's next eh? posted by Danny on July 31, 2002 at 19:36:47:
        
        Boy do those look familiar! :) While I have never heard the P1's, I have heard this new mystery speaker of Danny's when I met him in Austin a few weeks ago. I was extremely impressed with the "airyness" of the tweeter. Definitely a step up from the A/V-1's.
        As to the name of these new speakers...I'll never tell! :)
        Brian Bunge
        
        Lucidity.... - hondadanda 20:04:34 07/31/02 (9)
        
        In Reply to: Re: What's next eh? posted by Brian Bunge on July 31, 2002 at 20:01:37:
        
        I might as well wait for this one....Ummmmmm
        
        Re: Lucidity.... - Brian Bunge 20:29:19 07/31/02 (8)
        
        In Reply to: Lucidity.... posted by hondadanda on July 31, 2002 at 20:04:34:
        
        Well, it's the Lucidity line, but what's the actual speaker name? :)
        Brian Bunge
        
        Re: Lucidity.... - Bob Reimer 14:22:59 08/05/02 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Lucidity.... posted by Brian Bunge on July 31, 2002 at 20:29:19:
        
        The Lucidity series is being developed for Creative Sound Solutions by GR Research and will be available from both GR and Creative.
        The first degree of Lucidity is "Criterion" and the second degree is "Pursuit" and we are planning a couple more after that.
        Please check the Creative website about the 15th for more details.
        Cheers
        Bob
        Lucidity - you can get there by degrees!
        http://www.creativesound.ca
        
        Lemme guess.... - hondadanda 06:25:58 08/01/02 (6)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Lucidity.... posted by Brian Bunge on July 31, 2002 at 20:29:19:
        
        You got me on this one. Let me guess...
        If Danny is a clean, analytical guy, he names it Lucidity 1.
        If he is romantic, he names it Lucidity musica
        So which one is it? :-)
        
        Wow, well put - Sean H 08:21:09 08/01/02 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Lemme guess.... posted by hondadanda on August 01, 2002 at 06:25:58:
        
        Hit the nail on the head their. He's already got the numeral suffix names going already - Paradox 1, AV1, etc, so...
        I tried to help name products for a company one time, based on a theme. "Colorado" was one name for a cable, but he decided "Type 1" was better. :)
        
        Re: Lemme guess.... - martice 08:12:29 08/01/02 (4)
        
        In Reply to: Lemme guess.... posted by hondadanda on August 01, 2002 at 06:25:58:
        
        THE SPeaker name is 'Criterion'
        
        Danny, how are these for H/T duty? - jefflam79 10:10:25 08/01/02 (3)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Lemme guess.... posted by Martice on August 01, 2002 at 08:12:29:
        
        Also, how is the driver alignment? Similar to the AV1? I don't know much about the ribbon tweeter. How is the virtical response compared to the horizontal response?
        
        Re: Danny, how are these for H/T duty? - Danny 15:57:36 08/01/02 (2)
        
        In Reply to: Danny, how are these for H/T duty? posted by jefflam79 on August 01, 2002 at 10:10:25:
        
        "Also, how is the driver alignment? Similar to the AV1? I don't know much about the ribbon tweeter. How is the virtical response compared to the horizontal response?"
        It uses a series network very similar to the A/V-1 with drivers wired in phase.
        The ribbon is the new G2. It is basically the next generation Raven, and improved in several ways.
        The vertical response of this speakers is very good because this is actually a pretty short ribbon. It is only when the ribbons get taller that the vertical dispersion becomes more limited.
        Danny Richie
        
        Re: Danny, how are these for H/T duty? - Cut-Throat 17:08:17 08/01/02 (1)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Danny, how are these for H/T duty? posted by Danny on August 01, 2002 at 15:57:36:
        
        Danny,
        Did you get my port tube in the mail?
        
        Cut-Throat
        
        Yes. - Danny 07:27:52 08/02/02 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Danny, how are these for H/T duty? posted by Cut-Throat on August 01, 2002 at 17:08:17:
        
        USPS has it.
Re: About time for a Paradox Post! - T Wheeler 12:26:56 07/31/02 (0)
I love mine. Could not be happier. The wide dispersion characteristics of the speaker suit me, as I have them set up on the longer wall in a large room.
I recently mated mine to some inexpensive Wave 8's for my first foray into tubes and am really excited. It sounds great at a low price.
Whenever I have discerned brightness in the speaker it has always been an upstream component or interconnect.
I am still looking for a fault in these babies...
Re: About time for a Paradox Post! - RMcCoy 11:52:32 07/31/02 (2)
Another very satisfied owner here. I just can't see replacing the P1s anytime soon and if I was to find a speaker that appealed to me even more, I am sure I would keep the P1s just because they are such a great value and most importantly, they make good music. Just as Sean states, the P1s are very smooth and not at all bright. They just make you want to keep sitting and listening.
- Tme to move on for me! Thanks Danny! - RMcCoy 08:33:15 08/01/02 (1)
  OK...I lied. I can see replacing the Paradox 1s now. It took a day or so since my last post is all. Or maybe I now have two sets. I'm sure I can ceate another system... somewhere....I'd hate to sell the ones I have to be honest, even if the new ones are a lil' bit better.
  Danny, you couldn't just leave well enough alone now could you? We appreciate that, however, our family's may not!
  Jackman, we we will have the latest version of the Paradox 1 to bring into the mix now as well once we get the time to get together again.
  Thanks again Danny, I look forward to the latest P1s!
  - Another reason I love talking audio with you! - jackman 14:45:35 08/02/02 (0)
    I like talking audio with you because it makes me feel less guilty for my purchases and a little less reluctant to go out and get more stuff! Keep up the good work! Are you around tomorrow morning? I have a party in the evening but I'm open in the morning. Also, please pencil in Monday, August 12th if possible. Mark Schaeffer (the guy with the speakers) is coming by to do some demo's. They are arriving this Thursday. If Monday doesn't work, we can do something earlier in the week.
    I have a pair of nOrh 4.0's to throw into the mix along with a SET integrated amp. Picked them up for a friend and will deliver them next Saturday. You are welcome to check them out and mess around with the stuff. Also, bring your integrated. If you are thinking of selling, I may be in the market soon...
    Thanks!
    Jack
I enjoy mine very much... - jonbee 10:49:39 07/31/02 (4)
and still think they are the best overall value in speakerdom. You can always get better for more $ (both my Revel M20s and VMPS 626R are notably better), but I think the P1 hits the sweet spot for a lot of users. As far as flavors of the month, because you love chocolate doesn't mean you can't love vanilla too! There are lots of wonderful speakers around these days, and I believe that we've been in a price compression mode the last few years, where quality improvement is getting less pricey. I'm not sure the state-of-the-art has advanced too much in the last ten years or so (this may be the reason for the malaise in the high-end), but the sound quality in the lower and mid price ranges has gone up. I expect that trend to continue.
- Re: I enjoy mine very much... - Brian Cheney 15:24:44 07/31/02 (3)
  I've heard nothing but good things about the GR speakers and the prices certainly are reasonable. Of course if you measure them with the mic above the tweeter the curves might look a little rough...
  Big B
  - Yea, its real rough. - Danny 07:44:17 08/01/02 (1)
    See graph:
    These are measurements of the Paradox-1 taken at 1 meter on tweeter axis and each additional measurement was made after moving the mic up 6".
    Aside from a little baffle step loss in the 500Hz area the response maintains a variation of +/-2db from on tweeter axis all the way up to 24" above tweeter axis.
    If that's rough, I can live with it.
    With the new M-130 woofer it is just as smooth but with over 1 full db less baffle step loss.
    Danny Richie
    - Re: Yea, its real rough. - Brian Cheney 08:36:44 08/01/02 (0)
      Nice curves, I'm jealous! Ribbons don't have that kind of vertical dispersion.
      BTW how do you posts graphs and pix? I'm no good at it.
      Brian
  - I thought everyone kissed and made up??? - jackman 20:34:00 07/31/02 (0)
    Are you sure about that?...
Re: About time for a Paradox Post! - Sean H 10:32:18 07/31/02 (0)
I think VMPS is the flavor of the month right now, replacing the Revel M20 and Paradox 1!! :)
I have owned a pair for a couple months now and I really like them a lot. They have met at all my expectations and exceeded some as well. Based on some comments I was suspecting the P1's to deliver music in a very detailed, "here's your music!!" kind of way and may tend toward brightness. On the contrary, I find them to be very musical, with a smooth and linear treble. The presentation is detailed but not overtly so or in a etched fashion, the P1's can communicate music with emotion and be very involving. They possess a high degree of musicality and this kind of exceeded some expectations for me. The detail and staging is excellent, but they do have a soul too.
I have mine on very rigid stands (about 100lbs), and though I have not tried them on any other stands I imagine they need very rigid stands to reach their potential. I would guess a mediocre stand would compromise performance in some areas. As to tweaks, I am experimenting with using some felt around the tweeter which has brought a slightly sweeter treble and added more focus. As to placement, I have them firing right at me with an aggressive toe-in, about 3 1/2 feet in from the front wall and about 2 1/2 feet from the side walls. Danny told me that the P1's smoothest response is on-axis about an inch above the tweeter. It's great that it has such a smooth response on axis, this way you can reduce side wall reflections with the toe-in and you maximize soundstage depth and image focus. The P1's have very wide dispersion and unless they are in a room with treatments they will definitely cause major reflections so my advice would be to toe them in if you do not have a treated room. Firing them straight ahead in a lively room close to the side walls could cause brightness.
All in all very nice speakers. I hope to hear the new AV1's sometime.