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In Reply to: Re: posted by Romy on July 28, 2002 at 14:30:22:
I believe that Romy is talking about the harmonic overtones from the double bass. These must be reproduced in the time and frequency domain. Most loudspeakers do this very badly, some are less worse than others. If you don't reproduce these harmonics by burying them in noise,assorted distortion, or cut them out by using stiff crossovers than you will not reproduce the real structure of the of the double bass. Acoustic intruments can have very complex harmonics. Most loudspeaker marketing folks would rather not talk about this.
Follow Ups:
nice to hear some sense - finally...
You are absolutely correct but there is much more to it. Double bass begin to be converted into “audio bass” at the electronics level and then just “finally got killed” at a loudspeaker. The majority of audio electronics can’t preserve the harmonics stricture of original signal. The measurement of the static harmonic distortions is totally irrelevant (in the way how it usually done and interpreted). In a bass reproduction the harmonic dynamics become super critical. Practically none of known to me amplifiers can properly roll out to a note preserving an appropriate stricture of the process. Mostly they go very sharp trying to reach the pitch, flatting the parabola, and, as a result, they strip harmonics, original “dynamic or dynamics” and some other important parameters that all together sent to a listener a message “fake” and made Dr. Gismo crying about the lack of tone in Audio. When we introduce a speaker with it's mechanical limitations, barbarically over-engineered crossovers, fundamentally improperly operating drivers, enclosure’s “help” and the timing limitations we totally lost the musical benefits of bass and convert it into a melodic fart. In addition there is a years-and-years-lasting marketing propaganda which infects the sick audiophile brains with an idea what kind of the "audio bass" should be consider "fashionable and appropriate”. I have a good tradition to invite each 6-month a heavy core audiophile and to let them to listen some music. If after the listening they look at me like I am idiot and they saying: “Romy, your have very shitty bass” then I secretly treat thier commnets as a highest possible compliment. Proper bass reproduction is unfortunately totally unknown in the “common audio”…
I'll disagree when it comes to well designed solid state amplifiers. The problem I have found is more noise related than distortion related. I'll agree on loudspeaker design problems.
In addition we can also add the back emf from the loudspeaker and the rising magnetic field from the power transformers in the amplifier. Note: We have just started to look at problems with loudspeaker/power amp interface.
*** I'll disagree when it comes to well designed solid state amplifiers.Not for the sake of argument but for sake of education could you bring up some models that you would consider “fit you bill”.
*** Note: We have just started to look at problems with loudspeaker/power amp interface.
I quite disagree with you. “We” just recently made this topic popular, sellable and marketable. Whoever REALY know what is going on never took the loudspeaker/amp interface out the picture (and particularly for the LF) (http://anchovy.ece.utexas.edu/members/tom/papers/jasa_96.html) In case of multi-amping the special built LF SET with negative output impedance (and with no feedback :-) is a defiantly the way how it should be done, and it always were…
Since this is Speaker Asylum I will not comment much further on amplifiers. I'll let Bud Fried do that. Warning: He will laugh hysterically at your mention of SET's. He built those the first time around.
At this point I need to hand off to Bud Fried. You won't believe me.
Dan Banquer
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