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In Reply to: Detail AND Smooth High End? posted by JeffMO on July 24, 2002 at 13:26:44:
I wouldn't blame either speaker or amplifier.I guess each has got its own problems and it's purely academic to discuss who's to blame - B&W's tweeter or Denon for the harshness.
Let's be practical about it and minimise the amount of money spent to get the better sound.
IMHO, in this particular instance you could save your time and money if you replace the amplification.To get a speaker which has the same clarity and detail that the B&W has (that you love), but also has a smoother top end you'd have to spend much more money and time.
You could get smoother speaker but most certainly would have to sacrifice the details. Or you could get smoothness and details, but would lose punchiness of the bass. Trust me - been there done that, it's hard to find a good speaker because speakers are the biggest variables in this eternal equation.Plus, unlike the electronics which you could more or less adequately judge auditioning at dealer's, it only makes sense to audition speakers at home - there are much more variables involved, such as you room, positioning etc, which you can't bring to a dealer (you can take you CD and speakers if you wish).
At the same time, buying an amplifier seems to be more viable and cheaper alternative.
There are a lot of "smooth" inexpensive amplifiers around, both tube and SS. Used market is also flooded.From the amp brands that are particularly smooth and relatively inexpensive I would recommend Creek, Audio Analogue, Anthem, Arcam, AES, ASL, Jolida, LFD Mistral and many others.
Mind you, you don't need a lot of watts to replace your 100 Denon watts - what you need is a high current amp, so a 30-40W of high current amp power would suffice to drive the B&W.
Follow Ups:
Since you know the type of sound you want, you know the room you listen in, and you (presumably) know the electrical parameters of your receiver, why not custom design (with a speaker builder) a speaker to specifically match all those parameters. It might be easier and cheaper than the hit or miss approach of dragging countless off-the-shelf designs into your room, only to find that you like the treble but not the bass, or like the bass but not the mid-range, etc.Working with a speaker builder, you could design and build the sound that you want...choose the drivers, choose the crossover components, choose the design of the box, choose the finish (to match your furniture)...all for less than buying a high quality off-the-shelf design. Check around in your area. Do your homework. A lot of hifi shops offer custom speakers or have relationships with custom builders. If you are good with a soldering gun (and electrical crossovers), you might even have a hand at building these yourself or building parts of the design and having a professinal cabinet maker do the cabinets. Furthermore, speaker part suppliers like Madisound offer numerous kit speakers that use high quality drivers and crossover components. You might want to consider that. The parts suppliers are very helpful people and they would assist you choosing just the right tweeter to create the smooth and even treble sound that you desire and just the right woofer to give you a coherent mid-range sound and smooth and extended bass (that precisely matches the physical parameters of your room). You could get just the right electrical impdedance so your amp can drive the speakers efficiently. Best of all...being involved in the process of designing your own speakers is a lot of fun.
Just for the argument sake - ..If you suggest to go down the DYI path, why not to upgrade/tune the existing speaker.
Especially if he is happy with 80% of its performance.
That then would be much more effective and less costly alternative.
The problem is - not everyone is a DYI'er, and/or has time and desire to embark on this exercise.I see your problem, layman, is with B&W speakers in general so all your suggestions are directed in one or another way to help a guy to rid of his B&W :)
I read your other posts, and even I respect very much your technical considerations, I don't understand why the fact that B&W speakers do not meet your certain design/measurement criteria, you think they are junk and are not worth to own and enjoy by someone else but yourself.
Many people like them and I think everyone has the equal right to like or dislike any particular model or brand, regardless of how well/poorly it is designed or does measure by someone else's opinion.
This hobby is all about subjectiveness and freedom of choice.
For example, I don't like Sonus Faber speakers personally, but I understand why people would like them and what for and I respect their preference.
I don't suggest everyone who owns a Sonus Faber speaker to throw it out only because I think it has incorrect tonal balance or imperfect impedance curve of whatever.
Let everyone's ears decide on what to buy and leave the technical parameters for engineers who design the audio gear.
Otherwise, it's like saying 'this stuff has 1% THD so it must sound like sh^t'.
I don't loathe or love any speaker (or any speaker manufacturer). I don't have strong "personal" feelings (about any equipment) one way or the other. I am entirely neutral. I am not pushing any equipment line. I don't represent any manufacturer or idea (least of all DIY suppliers).My interest in the working of speakers and perfecting them...stems from a love of music...and a deep understanding of what music sounds like. So, I have no personal agenda, no ego, and nothing to gain from suggesting that DIY might put a stop to the endless merry-go-round of component switches; put an end to the frustration of trying to force someone else's design to work in your room (only to realize that it will never be a perfect match). DIY is a legitimate way to avoid these pitfalls and the unhappiness that results.
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