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In Reply to: Re: Detail AND Smooth High End? posted by RGA on July 24, 2002 at 15:01:34:
Well you've got me more confused than ever but that's not necessarily a bad thing.What would be the best way to try to figure out what would be best to upgrade? I've been going back and forth in my mind and last night thought I had it all figured out. I don't want to use dealer's time and borrow equipment from them because I would almost for sure buy used.
Before last night I was thinking in this order:
Upgrade from Denon DRA-685 to NAD C370 (or something else)
Upgrade from Tara Prism 8 to Cardas 300B
Upgrade from Denon DCD-810 to NAD 541i (or something else)
Then much later get N803s, then after that probably want better amp and CDP. But the NAD C370 should at least be enough. However my CDP is old and could die at any time or could last years. The receiver is brand new. So many people say NAD and B&W go well together.I switched from Monster to AQ Type 4 and noticed no difference so I'm afraid to spend any more money on speaker cables.
Anyway I'm just spewing at the keyboard. Don't really know what I'm talking about.
Jeff
Follow Ups:
For God's sake, not the N803. I mean not now.
It will expose your upstream gear's problems even to bigger extent and force you into replacing the rest of your gear.
I am almost confident that the N803 will not only fail to fix your bright top end problem, but could exacerbate it to even bigger extent than you have now.
N803 is a Pandora box, in other words.
I mean going to N803 will mean a major upgrade which is not in your plans if I understand them right.
But if you have money - N803 is a hell of a speaker.
I wouldn't mind to have one myself one day.
But at this price point world is your oyster as they say and there is a lot of competitors that you may prefer to the B&W.
I personally don't think the N803 is a good value for money, even though it's a good speaker. Used N803, on the other hand, looks like a good option (btw, these things seem to keep their resale value like crazy!)
On the other hand, I believe replacing the cables or CDP would bring you the least improvement per dollar spent.
As I have already suggested in my previous post, it looks like Denon should step down and free the space.Speaking about amps...
NAD, IMHO, is not the smoothest sounding amp.
It is Ok and resonably honest to the audio signal, that's why it is deservedly a well respected amp, but it is not the ultimate neutrality that you should be looking for if you want to smoothen things out.
I used to have Rotels and NADs and heard them with the B&W speakers and I can't say the sound was particularly smooth.
Many people like this combination but I think those people are more tolerant to the bright top end than you are.Better check Creek or Audio Analogue in SS.
Especially the latter - it will not only smoother the top end, but give you the warmer and more 'enveloping' sound in the midrange.
It makes vocals to sound so seductive.
Then, the tube amps - give them a try.
This, IMHO will give you the ultimate smoothness, but at the price level you are targeting tube amps will trail the similar-priced SS amps in the accuracy, noise and distortion (it's not the case if you go up the price ladder).
This might put you off so be ready, but give them a try nonetheless.I was in the same boat a while ago so I'd learned a lesson or two from this. Hope my suggestions help.
Good luck and keep us posted!
Well I'm not convinced in the merits of cables so I won't touch that one. I would just be very cautious if I were you about cable differences...and if different are they actually better? The only expensive cables I've heard sound different were actually worse than the cheap sone(some Mit Terminator series). Anyone can make a cable sound different...better is another issue.I'm not familiar with your Denon but if it has an external Power amp capability I would go that route instead of the NAD. You could probably get a used Bryston 3BST for the price of the 370 and you'll get a far far superior amplifier. Their warranty is 20 years transferable but more importantly they sound exceptional. Down the road you could look to a tube preamp to take a little gleam off the high frequencies.
Same applies tothe CD player if it has the ability to use an outboard DAC that is an option. I'd look to Arcam for the CD player as well.
What many people say is often wrong. NAD and B&W may indeed be a good match but so are lots of things. The NAD integrated is very good but for the money I think an external amp is the much better way to go. Plus the 3B or something of this level will drive the 803s well. Buy things you don't need to upgrade all the time is the best advice I can give. A smart decision now is better than two or three so-so ones.
I would look for a cd player that has a good solid transport like the Rega planet or even the Arcam models - the Arcam 7se had the same build as the Arcam alpha 9...so buying a 7SE and then upgrading down the road is an option. Or you could try one of those 100 disc players and getting a good external DAC. The importance of the tranport is largely overrated IMO - and there seems to be a shift in the thinking to support this.
Not to take you away from B&W because I like them a lot as well, but how glued are you to them? They were my first choice for many years but I've lately been exploring some smaller high end companies like Reference 3a that might floor you. I bring them up because They are a lot cheaper than the 803 and you may be able to get them faster. I'm thinking of the MM De Capo, for a number of reasons. They are efficient which allows you to use a lower powered but very high quality tube amp or something like the YBA Integre DT etc. You can add a sub down the road for the next level of bass. At 3k Canadian I consider them to be a better speaker than the 803...which says a lot when you consider how good the 803 is.
If you really love the 803 that's fine too but you will need to spend more on a high power amp to get the quality of lower power amps that cost less.
Go to this site and browse. Near the top you'll see the gear that is carried and I'd direct you to Reference 3a, and Antique Sound Labs as well as Copland. You may see better and cheaper options than those you've been considering. An ASL or Copland integrated with the MM De Capo may change your mind over NAD and B&W. Just some more stuff to throw at you.
Ref 3a is tougher to find but I have the fortune to live near a dealer that carries them and B&W. The 3a's look good in person and the sound puts them over. 40Hz is also fantastic bass response...so don't be too put off by standmounts.
http://www.divertech.com/home.html
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