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Is there an optimum speaker distance? Or at least a minimum? For music and for HT?
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very different when it comes to speaker placement.5-channel systems can do a lot of optimizing/tweaking through the use of time-delays/spl/bandwidth for each speaker that you probably wont be doing to your 2-channel system.
5-channel is a whole nother ballgame so the following pretty much pertains to 2-channel.
no matter which method you choose to use remember that they are all rule-of-thumb and that only listening and experimenting over a fairly long period of time will get the optimal performance.
you may find that none of the prescribed methods are even close for your room/system or you may find that they all sound about the same to you.
the absolutley most important component/variable in the whole thing will be your ears.
if it doesnt sound right to you its not right period.
as you experiment you will hone your listening ability and be able to tell a compressed soundstage vs a wide and deep soundstage and whether the violins sound screechy or silky smooth with just the right amount of bite from the rosined bow etc.
and remember that your room is fully 50% of the equation/system and that any room can use a bit of treatment to help improve the sound.
just have fun with it and you will soon get the knack for getting the best soundstage/imaging/focus/tone from the system.
for a while.
you are now on the road to the asylum for tweaking therapy. ;)
have fun.
I have integrated my 2-channel and 5.1 channel systems together and don't find the need to alter my optimum 2-channel speaker placement to accomodate 5.1 channel DD/DTS Home Theater playback.And yes, everything sounds really good to my ears and also measures very well with my calibarted microphone and ETF5 room analysis software.
Can you specifiy what you think needs to be changed?
bstan
an overview of how ht systems are usually set-up.as an installer of dedicated ht systems its been my experience that the positioning of the front l/r speakers are usually compromised greatly.
they are usually installed in some sort of large entertainment center that contains the monitor/c-channel/etc and the levels/imaging are adjusted for a best-possible-under-the-circumstances situation.
waf is usually a very large part of the equation.
it sounds like you have taken the time to set-up your system for best possible imaging/soundstage/etc for 2-channel and ht integration and this i assure you places you in a very small minority of ht system owners.
unless the ht is designed from the ground up for 2channel and ht the 2-channel system will not be optimal for both stereo and ht.
ive been doing medium$/high-end$ ht system installation for a few years now and this has been my experience.
i hope to soon start working again part-time for an outfit that does $85k average ht systems.
they are starting one soon that is 10k sq.ft. !!!
thats the size of the theatre and not the house !!!
the last system i worked on had over $50k in cabling alone !!
as far as your system goes it sounds like you have taken a great deal of time for set-up and there is no posible way to recommend any specific changes over the internet.
and of course the only result that matters is how the system sounds to your ears.
Yes, I've spent the time to optimize what I do have.I've certainly been working in the field of digital convergence (video, sound, and data) and it's network implementation in schools for the last few years.
But, it sure sounds like what you're doing would be a whole lot more fun than the network design and consulting I was doing before I got laid off.
bstan
Place them here, there, everywhere and point them ever which way you desire until they sound right to you. If you have balance and tone controls on your pre/integrated amp, don't be afraid to use them. Also, I've got some of my best sound by placing the speakers in non-audiophile-approved locations.Have fun, experiment, and Enjoy the Music.
AudioDwebe
Did you try Cardas method in asylum FAQ's ??? Involves positioning speakers in terms of room dimensions, but you end up with a triangle wherein the distance from speaker to speaker is the same as the distance from either speaker to your ear.Bruce
it will vary from speaker to speaker and rooms will also have an effect.Some speakers - Vandersteens, Dunlavys, and other time and phase aligned designs - are designed to be listened to at a particular distance and you would need to read their particular manuals for info on that distance.
For other speakers, there is usually a minimum distance required before the drivers integrate smoothly, and that will depend in part on the number and spacing of the drivers. The minimum will usually be closer for 2 way designs with only 2 drivers than for speakers with more drivers/ways. This should be much less of an issue for single or coincident driver speakers.
The next factor is whether you wish to listen in the near field. Note: "near field" is not the quite the same idea as close - it's within the zone where the direct sound waves dominate what you hear. A bit further out is an area where the direct and reflected sound are pretty equal and further out again an area where reflected sound can dominate. Some speakers sound best in near field while others may not. In some cases you can find 2 distances that work extremely well, one near field and the other more distant. Many people choose to listen in the near field because that minimises the effects their room has on the sound. Whether near field listening will work or not depends a lot on whether the minimum distance required for the drivers to integrate is short enough to enable you to sit further away than that, but still within the near field.
In practice, the room has a major effect and all of the accepted speaker placement methods also tend to define a listening position at the same time.
For a good overview of speaker placement, read the first 5 or 6 articles in Jonathan Scull's "Fine Tunes" series which should be available on line in Stereophile's archives.
David Aiken
Your posting makes a lot of sense. Since you have 1.3 SE, do you consider it a near field speaker? Do you think it would work in 12x10 room? What other near field spearkers would you suggest? Thanks,
My room is odd in that it's 22' by 11' but half way along the long wall there's a part wall sticking out on one side to divide it into two 11' square areas. The listening area is one of those and, because of the placement of the part wall, I can't fire down the 11' length so I effectively listen in an 11' square room with a side wall with a very large opening in it.My listening distance is a bit under 8 ft but probably not technically near field since I listen with my head very close to the wall in the pressure zone. You could listen to the Contour 1.3 SEs in the near field, but it would need to be in a bigger room than either of ours, or you would need to be prepared to listen at about 5' to 6' maximum distance. The big problem is really the need to give a bit of space behind them for the rear firing port. I get away with them being closer to the wall than recommended through using DIY bass traps and room lenses to control bass boom and improve diffusion behind the speakers.
I really can't help with other recommendations. The Contours are new - 2 months old - and replaced a set of KEF 104 aB speakers I'd had for 21 years. I'm also in Australia where many of the speakers mentioned here are just not available. My choice was largely between the Contours and the Vandersteen 2CE Signature which I've also heard in a smallish room, but I think it also needs space behind it.
My basic recommendation would be for a 2 or 3 way with closely spaced drivers. I also wouldn't go for something with a -3dB point much lower than the 1.3 SEs 37 Hz. A possible choice, given their recommendations for speaker placement, would be something in the Audio Physic range but I've never seen or heard them so I can't say for sure. The speaker placement method they recommend, however, would normally result in relatively close listening distances. I borrowed the idea of listening close to the wall from them while utilising a more normal speaker placement since putting the speakers in the centre of the room where they recommend would have been impractical in a normal living room situation and would have had me around 5 and a bit feet away from the speakers.
David Aiken
My speakers are around 8ft apart right now I should be fine right?
...you really need to look at the AA FAQ. There's a section devoted to speaker positioning.Tom §.
Yes, but it depends on the room size/shape and the speakers themselves.
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