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In Reply to: Re: Super Tweeter for SACD? posted by MMG on September 26, 2001 at 10:51:59:
Marcin:
"Why do you want one? If you aren't a bat, you can't hear frequencies above 20kHz..."While you can't hear them as discrete signals, you can perceive them (i.e. your cortial activity changes near the hearing center with ultrasonic sounds) and they affect your hearing of localisation of sound (i.e. when naturally mixed with frequencies that can be formed into a hearing experience, they enhance this experience by providing additional positional cues).
This has been proven in controlled medical studies.
Do some Medline searches if you don't believe me.
cheers,
HalcyonPS Another possible added benefit of ultra-sonic tweeters is that they are often more accurate and stable also WITHIN hearing frequencies, due to having to cover the "unhearable" frequencies as well.
Follow Ups:
According to the October 2001 Sound & Vision, the audible effects of ultrasonic frequencies can be attributed to intermodulation effects of the ultrasonic frequencies which are in the audible range. In other words, it's the intermodulation effects, not the ultrasonic frequencies, which are proven to be audible. See David Ranada, "Tech Talk," on p. 35.The article is about scientifically valid comparisons of audio equipment, and the point was that it is necessary to ensure that everything in the listening chain is producing exactly what it is supposed to. The intermodulation distortion produced a positive result in the DBTs.
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"Nature loves to hide."
---Heraclitus of Ephesus (trans. Wheelwright)
But those subharmonics are already present in the recorded material in the audible spectrum. No need for "making it" one more time.Thereby I dont say extended response might not be worthwile.
/Peter
Yes, but the intermodulation effects seem to exist primarily because of the intermodulation distortion in the audible range caused in the speakers. They had measured this using a microphone at the listening position and found the distortion, which made an audible difference, as I understand it. The sneaky researchers tried playing the audible signal on one speaker and the ultrasonics on another, thus removing the intermodulation distortion. No intermodulation, no audible difference.But yes, if the intermodulation products are below 22 KHz, they could be recorded on the CD. But the question arises, if the audible difference is really due to intermodulation distortion in the speakers, and not the live sound, why bother to produce it and record it?
Ultrasonic response may or may not be a good thing, but a driver that can reproduce ultrasonics may have wider dispersion in the audible range.
____________________________________________________________
"Nature loves to hide."
---Heraclitus of Ephesus (trans. Wheelwright)
Hi,There's been some misunderstanding: I have critisized connecting s-tweeters AND regular tweeters TOGETHER, in a way similar to that, when they connect 2 woofers/midrange speakers in a 2.5 or 3 way loudspeakers. The method is ok when distance beetween speakers' centres is (much) closer than 1/2 of length... etc., because it causes phase errors at different angles. I believe (even though I've never heard one) that s-tweeter is more stable within audible range, so it could be used INSTEAD of normal tweeter; as far as I know, existing s-tweeters are addictional modules meant to be placed on top of loudspeakers (so are Sony's s-tweets), so phase problem remains unsolved. And, on top of all, SACD and DVD-A records sound much better on conventional speakers... To my mind, s-tweeters are just a new toy... They want us to pay more than it's really necessary.
Anyway, thank you very much for your opinion,
Best regards,
Marcin.
Marcin, thanks for your opinion. but have you listened to a system and A/B compare it with and without a super-tweeter yourself?
I did my best to do so, unfortunately Sony's dealer (on an exhibition) refused to get things worked... But I did (unintentionally) an other A/B test. I've listened to SCD-1 with SACD record, and I was amazed. Unfortunately, a couple minuts later I've had oportunity to listen to SF T3/P3. 44.1/16, eh? Guess, what was better ;)))Best regards,
Marcin.
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