|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
Granted these are two of the great speaker artisans that I've not had the opportunity to hear. I'm thinking of a new pair of speakers for a 11 x 18 room, and would like to hear from people who've owned or auditioned both. A fair comparison would be the RM33Si vs the VSM-M?I haven't got a dealer within reasonable distance that has them in stock, so opinions are greatly appreciated.
TIA
Follow Ups:
Jeff, I'm awaiting delivery on a pair of the RM33s myself. The measured sensitivity of 80/83 dB in the Stereophile article does raise issues of amplifier matching. The article mentioned a MF Nu-Vista 300 clipping. What solid state amps would be recommended then for these wonderful speakers? Would something like the Simaudio Moon W-5 do the job?
The article also mentions that the SimAudio I5 at 70 watts per channel drove the RM33si's quite sucessfully.The clipping happened as Chip Stern played the cannon shots of new telarc 1812 overture at increasingly higher levels. He wanted to see how far he could go! That's how he shut down his amplifier.
We've run the 33's on VTL 125 watt amplifiers, Audio Research 100 watt solid state amplifers, Classe Audio integrated amps and CAM350 mono blocs. I know of an audiophile who uses his RM33si's on the Manley Stingray.
As always, your listening habits, room setup, and tastes will have final say.
Jeff
Maybe Bobby should be given equal time! As Jeff Joseph points out his speakers are 'stunning' etc. and you may be choosing only between reviewers (Michael Fremer for Merlin, Chip Stern for Joseph) or the very different looks and finishes of the two. Both are excellent, and despite Jeff's sideway swipe at Merlin's bass augmentation module (the BAM) it is a remarkable piece of work. I, nor Michael Fremer, have ever been able to detect it as any kind of problem, whether in or out of the system. It is totally transparent. My short list, like your own, contained both Merlin and Joseph Audio (and Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage) and I chose Merlin--for its overall presentation...it just seemed more like music to my ears.
Celluloid,Please don't misconstrue my posting as a "swipe" at anyone! There are many different paths to audio bliss, and the choice of which one to take is up to the individual listener.
Choosing speakers based upon who reviewed them? Huh? (besides, we were on Mikey's top ten list for the HE2001 show!)
I think that reviews, like postings here, are good starting points - and can provide some insights into what to listen for as you evaluate your options. But you control your own audio destiny! Think for yourself! Question authority! Follow yer bliss!Jeff
Dear BT:
Please describe your room in terms of damping, is it live or on the dead side? Will you be using the speakers on the long or short wall? Will you be using the speakers with an existing system or are you planning changes. If so, what are they? Cables are important too.
Regards,
Bobby@merlin
nt
President, JosephAudio
http://www.josephaudio.com
and I've only heard the RM33 very breifly at the last CES - not enough to make a reasoned comparison to Merlin VSMs.
Rich Brkich
but if memory serves me, they're 83db sensitivity.83?
please understand that i am w/ you. i own merlins and am obviously partial (but musically satisfied!), and i greatly respect the JJ designs.
however, 83?
(i hope memory doesn't serve me, as it would greatly limit equip matching to what is likely another great design by JJ).
btw: vsm-ms are 90db 8ohm, match great w/ a 20w tube amp.
rhyno
The RM33si works well with all but the very lowest power tube amplifiers. Sensitivity is greatly misunderstood, with the common wisdom being that the higher the number, the easier the speaker would be to drive. However, there are other factors that the amplifier may encounter such as large phase angles and low impedance. In fact, a low impedance speaker of higher sensitivity derives the higher output
by drawing more current. This tends to make small SET amps unhappy, defeating any advantage that the higher sensitivity would offer.
(apart from the marketing advantage)The RM33si has remarkable bass extension for what is a rather small enclosure. There is no external bass equalizer required that might place more demands upon the driving amplifier. And the amplifier sees a very easy 8 ohm load with well controlled reactance.
The most advanced drive units today, in our opinion, are not the most efficient ones. The amazing RM33si Magnesium midrange driver is specified at about 85 dB raw output.So, while the 83 dB spec might initially lead one to pass up the stunning performance of the RM33si, a simple listening trial with a given amplifier may well prove eye-opening. (and ear-opening)
(hopefully followed by wallet-opening!)Jeff
President, JosephAudio
http://www.josephaudio.com
Jeff,Are you using the Seas T25CF-002 or the T25-001 in your RM33si? Did you find it to be any more critical of cabinet diffraction than tweeters you use in your other models?
Regards,
Mike
Stereophile's measurements of these speakers came in even lower at 80db ... I remember several years ago they refused to recommend a speaker based on a VERY low efficiency measurement (but not as low the Joseph's). MC commented something like in this age of speaker manufacturing he could not recommend a speaker with an efficiency rating this low. He alluded that it indicated some poor design characteristic.I have never heard the Joseph speakers, just adding what I remember from a previous issue of Stereophile. The RM33si may be EXCELLENT. It was voted Best in Show at Hi-Fi 2001.
The 80 dB measurement does not match our data.JA did offer a couple of ideas as to why, and we're inclined to agree that the outside temperature may well have been a factor. (John does all of Stereophile's speaker measurements in the great big anechoic chamber known as the great outdoors!) With external temperatures in excess of 100 degrees the metal cones cannot dissipate the heat effectively and some thermal compression may have resulted.
President, JosephAudio
http://www.josephaudio.com
JA uses 2.83V at 1 meter for sensitivity measurements with B weighting, so this is not a true 1 watt @ 1 meter senstivity measurement. It would be if the speakers impedance over the weighting range was 8 ohms (1 watt = 2.83 Vrms into a 8 ohm load), but the average impedance looks higher than that to me (except for that short dip to 6 ohms at 500 to 500 Hz) which would mean that the 1 watt at 1 meter sensitivity for the speakers could well be a couple dB higher than the 80dB and account for another part of the difference between Jeff's specs and JA's measured number.
Rich Brkich
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: