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In Reply to: Is there generally accepted convention re a single measuring point.... posted by jaybar on September 22, 2001 at 10:09:51:
Generally, the measurement is done with respect to the bass driver or the midwoofer in case of 2 way designs such as the Signum. In short, it is measured from the front of the speakers. (btw the bass contribution of the Signum's port is rather minimal compared to that of the main driver) Say, for a rear wall distance of 1m - if you setup the Signums measuring from the rear of the speaker ... you'd most likely end up with too little bass.Btw, what you perceive to be pinched or honky bass might be as a result of severely uneven bass - could be too much midbass and not enough upper bass.
Follow Ups:
Hyperion-Also it places me about 11 feet from the speakers. Is this too far?
Loss in speed detail is most noticeable. I wonder if the MIT Capbles slow things down and that is why I have to place them further out?
Jay
If sluggish bass results when the Signum is already 1m away from the rear wall as measured from the midwoofer, then you probably have a very stiff room that dont absorb much LF energy from the speakers. 1m is in fact already too much for the Signums in typical setups w/c usually have the speakers end up around 75cm away from the rear wall measured from the front.There is no question MIT cables slow things down, and they do fatten the bass a bit. However you can do some things to counter those such as moving the speakers well beyond 1m. There are no absolute rules in finding good positions for the speakers in a given room. If the Signum sounds best in your room at 2m away then why, so be it.
The Signum is not designed to be listened to from as far away as 11 feet. They are supposed to be nearfield monitors, preferably listened to from 6-8' away.
The room is very very stiff. Concrete/cinderblock and holds onto LOTS Of bass. Thanks
Jay
I told you the same thing. Your room construction materials and your S.O. considerations are always going to present problems to fixing the sound in your room. You have 4 choices -- change the room/apartment, change your S.O. (just joking), change both of the preceeding or just live with it because nothing short of many of the right acoustical treatments IN the room are going to fix your problems. You cannot "buy" your way out of this with new speakers, cables or anything else. New purchases may ameliorate things somewhat, but the basic problem will always be there. Sorry, but that's the way it goes with this hobby.Jim
Jim-
The Signums are a completely different animal than the Dynaudio Contour 1.8's. The DON"T overload the room with bass to the extent the Dyna's did. With each inch I pull the speakers out, the bass changes. The speaker's tonal balance goes from dark to very light, depanding on rake angle and how far out, I have them. I am not continually focusing on the bass line as I did with the Contour's. What I am struggling with is how do I judge what is correct? What are the CD's/LP's supposed to sound like when the speaker is positioned correctly. As I said, distance from the side walls, rake angle, distance from the wall behind all changes things. What I am struggling with is trying to find the best combination. With my last speakers, so matter how I placed them, they always had more/less of the same problem.
Jay
"...What I am struggling with is how do I judge what is correct? What are the CD's/LP's supposed to sound like when the speaker is positioned correctly. As I said, distance from the side walls, rake angle, distance from the wall behind all changes things. What I am struggling with is trying to find the best combination. With my last speakers, so matter how I placed them, they always had more/less of the same problem..."No matter what you do nor what speakers you have, that room will never allow the speakers (nor any mechanically grounded equipment rack, for that matter) to operate anywhere near it's peak potential based on all the restrictive paramaters you are faced with (keeping domestic tranquility, aesthetics, listening position location, as well as room construction materials which is the most challenging factor in your case). Believe me, I wish it were as simple as changing rake angle or distance from a wall, but in your case you will always probably get compromised performance no matter what you finally decide sounds best. You know that I only wish you well and good luck with the SF speakers, but the room.....
I tend to agree.At some point a person needs to do his own research, evaluation and decision making. This may involve actual measurements as well as reading of basic acoustic principles (as in my own case) to get a better understanding of my own speaker/room environment and how the acoustic principles react within it.
The best advice given from others can only be a starting point for your own extension or application of that knowledge, not the ultimate answer.
Good luck Jaybar.
bstan
I think poor Jaybar deserves some sort of purple heart. I have been hanging about AA, the Naim forum, and a few others for several years now and by far the most painful voice I have listened to is that of Jaybar, who seems to have and have had every conceivable audio ill one can have. I have been (quietly) listening for the l.c.d. of his complaints and, while I have reached no conclusions, feel it may be a profound need to get advice and a corresponding lack of confidence in his own ears. He is just too f__king humble and overrates advice. Audio web sites can breed this condition. It takes a strong constitution to avoid it, actually. Many of us just love to hand out advice and do so with such conviction and eloquence that we create...well Jaybars! So let's give the dude the purple heart on the condition that he promise not to take ANYONE's advice for at least six months (and not read any magazines either) and just screw around with his gear until he's (relatively) content, which may, of course, be impossible.
have an impact on how far the speakers need to be placed into the room?
Jay
Yes. Since the fixed stand is typically shorter than the adjustable one (w/c is usually set to be around 29" or higher in practice), it naturally results to more bass and hence the speakers need to be placed further into the room.
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