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I have Merlin VSM-M speakers and want more. The Merlins are very natural sounding, but don't play loud and don't have the snap I want. I like 70's rock and head music and want a wide soundstage with good depth and live snappy kick. I was told Von Schweikert VR 4jr and the Gallo 3.1. I need more bass at least 30hz at -3db. I want a wide sweet spot, so I can enjoy them with friends. I once owned Altec Lansing 510 and those speakers rocked. My favorite speakers were Proac response 1s. I want the response 1s top with the Altec bottom or better. I tried this by building North Creek Music's Rhythm speakers. They were just ok so I went to the VSM-M.
Follow Ups:
i would consider using a sub and crossing it over at 80 hz or so with out the bam. not ideal in some ways but this will get you a bigger pop in the mid bass and allow the vsm to play louder because it is not playing lower bass. the vsm will then sound less strained to your ear.
i would also consider the mme or mxe modification to cryo the networks and make the speakers lead free. this will allow the speakers to sound fuller, more expansive and the volume level you will be able to reach now, should make you very happy.
the super bam mod will also make the system sound way fuller and more relaxed. it may also be that the batteries in your bam are close to failing and this would make the system sound rather light weight. if they have failed and are shorted in the bam, even the ac will sound suspect.
i would certainly consider the battery change to the 230 mah cells and the lead free jumpers then sit back and listen to the effects. the two changes alone could make a world of difference in the sound of the system to you...worth a try for the minimal cost.
good luck,
bobby
Your comments are why I have stayed with them.
Just got to thinking. I assume you have addressed your room's frequency response. Because if that is your issue, replacing equipment won't fix the problem.Also, when you say they will not go loud enough, do you mean you cannot get enough bass kick out of them? This can also be a room issue.
The way that I know that a speaker has peaked out in SPL is that distortion begins to go up (cone breakup), assuming the amp has not reached its peak output.
Hi,
I don't really understand your "midrange snap" problem or the fact that they can't play loud enough. Are you using them for parties or is your listening room a barn? Reading your post, I think you're not getting the best out of your Merlins.
I do agree with you that they don't have the deepest bass ever. This can be really improved with the right amp, as many have mentionned below. But if you want to blow your living-room into the street, as Bobby would put it, then you can move on. What you need is a big woofer pumping a lot of air, night-club style.
In the real world, the Mani2's are a very good overall performer and give absolutely stellar best in a small package. I really loved them. You will not get the magic and beauty of the music through the Merlins, but rock can do without as it relies mostly on slam as opposed to capturing an elusive moment of magic.
Another option, probably better, would be to add a sub.
this one's easy
easy for you to produce a flippant reply...? yes, that was easy.You would need a proac RESPONSE D38 to get you into the same zip code as merlins. having had response 2.5s for years, then merlins, that is MY opinion.
Proacs can run out of gas and - while the midrange may be sweet (with a bump) - the top end is hazy at best and gets confused in complicated passages.
I think its easy; the Proac Studio 200 has three drivers that give it a more open window with more detail than the Response 2.5 or the 1SC. Actually I hear more detail with my Studio 200 than my previous Thiels, which the Merlins tend to sound like without the the zing ( scream?, screech?) in the highs. And yes, they do get congested at full speed even with my REL subwoofer. However, its the closest thing to a Response 3 for reasonable money.
If the man wants to rock and still be smooth what he ought to do is contact Harltey in South Carolina or build himself something with old Tannoy Coaxials, which he seems to have the talent to do anyway.
I think you're going about this the wrong way. The system only plays to what it's fed from the source. I suspect your source dac/transport (esp. the dac) is too smooth / boring. Look into a Naim cd player, especially the CDX2. If you want fast, dynamic, etc. the CDX2 is it (I own one, having upgraded from CD5i to CD5x to this).
I was using a Karan KA-i180 integrated amp. I spoke to Bobby a couple of times. I just don't think it is the speaker for me. They are a black VSM-M with a battery BAM that is both single ended and balanced. I have since upgraded to a one-off EVS 700 monos that Ric built for me. They use a UCD700 module. 350wpc into 8 ohms and 700 into 4. With the amp I am using a Audio Mirror Pp1 tube preamp. I have a Maplenoll Cleo TT and a Pedja design TDA1541A/S2 dac. I have a pair of Velodyne Servo 1200 subs that are now in my HT room. I don't need efficient speakers. I found a pair of Dunlay SC-IV signatures for under $3K. I don't listen to Hiphop. I like older Genesis, ELP, Yes, America, Neil Young, etc.
Did you dislike the Merlins with the Karan? I have never heard that amp, but if it's anything like your current UCD, I can see why you found the combination lacking. Class D and Merlin do not go together. There's simply no exceptions, regardless of how many tubes you have before the amp. I currently own Channel Island UCD amps and would never consider using them with Merlins. If you like your amp, you definitely should look for another speaker.
I did dislike the Merlins with the Karan. The UCD based mono amps just showed up and I haven't tried them yet. I am just pretty positive I want different speakers. I think the Merlins are missing that low end kick and midrange snap. Their imaging is great and depth is good. They also don't play as loud as I want.
Contrary to what some say, I find the Merlins very room and placement sensitive. They simply might not be the speaker for your room, whether it be room size (Merlins sound best in smaller rooms) or placement in the room. I've heard excellent bass come out of Merlins, but at their optimum, they still might not be enough bass for what you're craving. I have never found any faults in their midrange though. The Merlin midrange is my idea of perfection.In addition to the other suggestions, I'd consider JM Reynauds.
Careful with your hearing. 110 db (which the Merlins are capable of in reasonably sized rooms) can cause some serious ear damage quite quickly.
This is not meant as a challenge. But do you know what it is about the Merlins, or UCD amps, that make them incompatible? I ask because I am considering UCD amps and I would like to know if certain types of speakers do not match well with them.
I find Merlins need amps (and other associated equipment) with tonal fullness. I've also found all class D amps to err on the side of some leanness. So putting them together has not worked for me and can't imagine ever working.
Get a pr of Klipsch Lascalla's or K-horns. You will get snap, you will get punched in the gut when you turn up the wick. And dont let anyone tell you they cant image. They can creat a great soundstage. Just have to tune the high end to your taste.
At 96db/watt they have all the snap you could hope for along with being highly accurate speakers. Great ones, IMO.
Are you sure you're looking for 30hz? Rock and head music rarely deliver that low. The "deep" notes are mostly above 50hz. It sounds to me that you're really after more mid-bass emphasis (perhaps in excess of linear) that can make a lot of rock, pop, and hip hop recordings sound better.
Good reply, this is exactly what I was thinking when I read the title of the thread. Deep bass is not found in 70's rock or any rock music. It is the mid bass that is emphasised. There are speakers that do that including Montana's which might be another option.In my experience speakers that have this emphasis never sound balanced unless of course all one listens to is rock. A matter of taste and priorities for sure.
> I need more bass at least 30hz at -3db <Actually the slam ("snap"?) of rock music comes from the 40-80 Hz range. I know the Merlins will go that low, but probably not at the volume you would like.
1. What is the rest of your system?
2. What size room do you have?
3. Have you ever considered a sub?
4. How old are your Merlins?I have owned 2 different pairs of Merlins and also Proac Response 2.5s. Electronics makes a major differnce.
I had VSM-Ms (currently VSM-MXs) and the bass was incredible even in a 20x26 room. However, when I put a lightweight amp in, the bass vanished.
Careful with all the crap you're about to get. The Merlin fan-base is deep here.....as is the group that wants to throw dirt on merlins. But the biggest base of all is the group that just tells you what their favorite speakers are.
In the end, Merlins may not be for you. But it would be a shame to get new speakers and find yourself in the same boat.
Sordidman gave good advice. approach this as a system. then call Bobby.
Dynaudio Focus range. Actually, i don't like them. Too much SLAM. Too Agressive. But maybe this is what you are after. Many love them.
and not associated equipment?I believe in taking a system approach. Sometimes other issues can steer one away from the real problem.
That being said, and to answer your question, you may be looking for an agressive speaker, - which is what I'm hearing when you describe what's going on. Although I think that the Merlins play rock well, and plenty loud, depending on one's room configs, and associated gear, perhaps you may want to take a look at Tyler and follow DKL's brilliant suggestion.
I've heard most of those Tyler PD series and IMO, those are really nice, agressive, rock, speakers. They are a touch rolled off in the mids and are very fast, with the ability, - (along with the RIGHT amp, like an old KRELL), - to deliver speedy, driving, full, bass that will rock your planet and kick some major behind!! Maybe you can get Jennifer Lopez to come over? In short, a much hated speaker for folks on these forums. You also may want to look at the B&W Nautilus series, most in that line, - (excluding the Signature line), are also a bit rolled off in the mids, and quite agressive.
All that being said, I do also recommend that you look at a possible upgrade to your VSM-M as the new line delivers more, and more real bass. Before you make a move, a call to Bobby at Merlin would be wise. Just to make sure that you cover all of your bases: and, an upgrade to the new line of VSM will provide you with more, and more realistic bass. (Not intended to plug, just to present some more options).
The problem of leisure, what to do for pleasure. Ideal love a new purchase, a market of the senses. Dream of the perfect life.
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The problem of leisure, what to do for pleasure. Ideal love a new purchase, a market of the senses. Dream of the perfect life.
The last one that I heard and liked was the VSM SE with the battery BAM. I have not heard a Merlin since. I was wondering if the new version is the lead free version or something else.
Hmm. The VSM's are -2db @33hz; and will play to 110db. Carefull with your hearing.
Tyler Acoustics makes a "rock" speaker that you may find attractive. I own the Tyler Linbrook Signatures, which used would cost you around 3500.00 or so used, and love them - but these PD15s may be more in line with what you're looking for in a speaker...
You may want to look into Aerial 10Ts (used)... I think they clock in at around $2500.Although not the last word in transparency they are very accurate and tend not to favor any genre of music but does many MANY things well.
To be at their best they crave PLENTY of good clean power and operate best in a medium sized room.
Anyway, give them a shot!
Good Luck on your speaker quest!
If you seeking accurate sound with reasonably extended bass and great imaging, consider the Vandersteen 3A Signature. The 3A Signature is the best speaker I have heard in the $3,500 to $4,000 price class and can be had second hand for less than $2,500. Pair it with good ancillary components and it will not disappoint.
From your description, I choose these:
Wow those are reasonable, but how do they sound. I don't want to take a big step backwards in treble quality for bass. I am willing to spend $2500.00.
I have not heard them. But people that have, like them.
That's real smart. Recommending speakers you haven't heard, but have READ that others like? Are you serious?
KMA.
.....at least you didn't tell me to kiss someone else's ass. An ass that you have never even seen, heard or smelled before. You are indeed making progress, grasshopper........
That was good.
This exchange was humorous.
Thanks; I needed the laugh.It just kills me that someone would recommend speakers that someone else recommends yet has never heard them nor understands the upstream electronics.
Are you the senior member "Ian Mackenzie" on the Lansing Heritage Forums? If so, you must be familiar with the Performance Series and Studio L Series threads there.No, no affiliation to Best Buy. But I think I know why you mentioned Best Buy. I used to own JBL Studio S310II's with charge coupled networks. The drivers in the Studio Series are practically identical to those used in the Studio L series, with exception to the supertweeter in the Studio L Series. I now own the Performance Series PT800/PS1400 stacks, which according to the infamous Ozzy look like "some generic japanese speakers from the 70s".
Negative.
Just a hobbyist.
Wow, I didn't realize I was infamous.
Yep. And here is where you made the comment:
- http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=speakers&n=237179&highlight=&session= (Open in New Window)
I'm a little slow so please bear with me. I just re-read your post and I think I now know what you were trying to tell me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you were trying to say the following:I am stupid. Reading other people's opinions about speakers is stupid. And I am not serious, because that would be stupid.
> I am stupid. Reading other people's opinions about speakers is stupid. And I am not serious, because that would be stupid <You almost have it.
Reading other people's opinions about speakers is NOT stupid. Recommending them wholesale w/o having ANY experience with them, now THAT might qualify.
I have no idea what your intellectual capacity is, so far be it from me to call you stupid. However, I can say that your advice was less than smart. How's that for ya?
"Reading other people's opinions about speakers is NOT stupid."Nice cover, even if it is a little transparent.
So Oz, have you listened to these:
As a matter of fact I have. A friend has a pair and I had them in my system for a weekend. And I have also heard them in his system.
Next question.
"Well the GMA Europa instantly comes to mind, but it might be too "cheap" for you. It is an absolute steal at 1K. But you could always go for the Europa Max or the Callisto if you want to spend more money. What matters is Roy makes good speakers and even his bottom feeders are excellent."
I was speaking of all three pairs that you recommended. Not just the Europas.So you listened to the Europas, but went on to recommend the other two models because, in your words, "What matters is Roy makes good speakers and even his bottom feeders are excellent'
Ok, smartass.
I have heard the Europas in my system.I have owned the Imagos.
Both are Roy's designs and definitely at opposite ends of the spectrum. Both are very good sounding speakers.
The Europa Max is a hot rodded version of the Europa.
The Callisto is a hot rodded version of the Europa Max.
I do have some familiarity with Roy's designs.
But to get back to your point, the Europa IS the speaker I recommended.
I'm done.
I hope you are happy now that you have been exposed for doing the very thing for which you attacked me.
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