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In Reply to: Re: come on bob... posted by Bobby Palkovic on May 3, 2007 at 09:56:43:
"no i do not think they sound like reynauds..."Good, that's all I said. Oh yeah, I also said they probably don't sound like Sonus Fabers either, which I assume you would also agree with. So as far as what matters to me in this conversation, we have settled it. The rest is all baloney.
All I meant in criticizing jb's remark is that it's not helpful to say that Merlins sound like Sonus Fabers sound like Reynauds. It is talking about what you like and not what things sound like. My goal, usually, is to help people make distinctions, not run stuff together because it all feels good, or whatever.
I'm not a reviewer any longer but there is still some reviewer in me. And that's what reviewers are supposed to do. Make distinctions, not blur them. The fact that Merlins, Sonus Fabers, Reynauds, Audio Notes all "arrive" at the music, all make their respective listening constituencies happy, is very nice. It is all very nice. But frankly I'm a lot more interested in the differences, both among the speaker lines and the constituencies.
Follow Ups:
bob,
no, i don't think they sound like sfs either.
as to why, that would be best said in private e-mails.
i can see what you mean in your last paragraph but this is hard to do here because of conflicts of interest for both you and me.
musical enjoyment and the emotional connection to it should always be the goal for all of us.
i wish you well.
b
I have never been very good at saying (knowing!) why various speakers lines don't sound like one other, for which Robert E Greene used to take me regularly to task. It might have been interesting at some point in my education to study a bit of audio physics to repair that hole in my knowledge. But the truth is, I have always been more interested in what the differences were as experience. In that sense, I take impressions of speakers (and other gear in conjunction with them) and report them. I think that's what most amateur 'philes do because in the end that's what's the point. What does a Merlin speaker sound like these days? How do the new Signature models of Reynauds sound compared with their immediate forebears? How are Harbeths and Spendors different to our ears? How differently do they strike us? It ain't very intellectual, I concede, but it's damn interesting, especially when you hear well and can get it right, in language. As I said earlier, that has always been my goal.As for Neill and Merlins, we have not had ideal relations over the years. I have never heard them on your preferred (?) Joule amps. I heard them on a very fine but perhaps not ideally suitable pair of Blue Circle BC 2.1's years ago. And I heard them in Montreal a few years back on a Berning. The experiences were similar, but I preferred them on the BC amp, which seemed less severe.
Perhaps I'll get to hear your lastest at RMAF, which I plan to attend next fall representing Reynaud (first appearance of JMR in years) and sharing a room with Blue Circle. If you're to be there, I will make a point of finding you.
Bob,
I didn't say Merlins sounds LIKE Reynauds, this is a shorcut. Not two speakers sound alike. I said that they weren't in opposite camps as you hinted at. In the analytical/hyper detailed vs warm and musical, the Merlins, like Jean-Marie Reynaud, are in the warm and musical category.
There is a common misconception that Merlins sound rather analytical, and your initial post fed that misconception. I don't care if people buy Merlins or JMRs or any other brand. But I will always disagree with any comment stating that the Merlins are cold or lean or analytical, because that's the opposite of what they are. They err on the warm side, they are full-bodied and detail is always presented in a natural, unforced way.
Yes, Merlins and JMRs have more in common than people credit them for. Once more, I'm a fan of JMRs AND Merlins, and there's a reason why. I hate it when my speakers don't convey the natural warmth of music or are clinical/sterile. Well I just described what the Merlins and the JMRs are NOT.
So once more, they have more in common than you hinted at, and are not in opposite categories.
That's all I'm saying.
b,
cardas audio, joule and merlin will attend and show at the rmaf in room 1007 or 1017, not sure which but same room as last year.
this is a good room and perfectly suited to the speakers and the combination. imho, we had sound that i was proud of last year so it should even be better this year with jud's (joule's) new lap 150mk2.
all the gear is wired with cardas and jud and i use each other's gear to design our own. great show and venue too.
see you there.
b
I have been reading this and it seems that Bob - you like several different speakers, Bobby is a manufacturer so you obviously have a preference in sound are trying to get at what you believe is "the best solution" and jb you like different speakers but you believe them to be in a similar sonic landscape (whatever that means - I would surmise a similar signature the way that I feel most multiple stacked slim lines sound alike to me that follow the NRC camp of design) Ala a Paradigm 100 is similar to what Energy puts out).My question is do you guys like speakers from totally different camps. I have looked over some of my favorite loudspeakers and I have liked stuff from complete opposite ends of the spectrum from Panels to horns to transmission lines to dual concentric (umm Tannoy if I got the dsign name wrong) to undamped boxes from Audio Note with their "out-there" theories. (as you all know this is my preference) but I still like these others and understand why people love them.
I'd be interested to know what speakers sound similar to a current Merlin or what camp one would put them into if possible and what would be viewed as a polar opposite.
I would like to hear Merlin and JMR -- I am in Korea -- any representation here. Harbeth seems to do well here as do some smaller brands not generally represented well in BC Canada like ProAc, Tannoy, Ruark etc.
Any speaker that is designed with tubes in mind is probably more right than wrong in my books even if they're not my first choice. If Merlin is doing that then they would probably be something I would like.
nyc, so i am here today. i just have time to say a few things about your post.from the time i have spent around live music and musicians, i have gained a particular appreciation for a continuous/complete sound and the musical center. some of my musician friends have said "i need to hear the middle of that instrument." so i have spent years trying to get rid of mechanical resonances, electrical resonances, distortions and amplitude irregularities which can all draw your attention away from the oneness, that i like to hear. the use of cryogenics and lead free construction have enabled me to get closer to this ideal than ever before (these are the e versions). and interestingly enough, later versions can also sound wonderful imho, with ss. i never thought this possible.
i personally like, quad electros, soundlab electros, rockports, avalons, kharmas and verity products (not in any particular order). i am sure there are others but that is all i have time to mention or to think of now.
i thank you for you thoughts and sorry, but i have to go.
bobby at merlin
nyc, so i am here today. i just have time to say a few things about your post.from the time i have spent around live music and musicians, i have gained a particular appreciation for a continuous/complete sound and the musical center. some of my musician friends have said "i need to hear the middle of that instrument." so i have spent years trying to get rid of mechanical resonances, electrical resonances, distortions and amplitude irregularities which can all draw your attention away from the oneness, that i like to hear. the use of cryogenics and lead free construction have enabled me to get closer to this ideal than ever before (these are the e versions). and interestingly enough, later versions can also sound wonderful imho, with ss. i never thought this possible.
i personally like, quad electros, soundlab electros, rockports, avalons, kharmas and verity products (not in any particular order). i am sure there are others but that is all i have time to mention or to think of now.
i thank you for you thoughts and sorry, but i have to go.
bobby at merlin
I'm butting in here, but I'm sure Bobby or jb will respond..To me, there is no other speaker(s) that sound quite like Merlin. It's difficult to describe because Merlin speakers are transparent but still retain image density. They can sound warm but not syrupy. They can sound full but not bloated. They have high resolution without being analytical.
They are easy to drive. They sound pretty much like whatever the recording sounds like. But just because they are neutral...they are never boring.
I like the 'sound' of many different speakers too. But so far, none that make me want to give up my Merlins. The general 'character' of the TSM is surprisingly similar to the VSM. They both play larger than their size. And with a sense of 'ease'. The VSM takes it all several notches further than the TSM...but the overall presentation is remarkably similar.
They are worth an audition for any music lover who wants music to sound natural and complete in their home.
As for other speakers I know, I also like Avalon, Verity and JMRs, going from the "colder" side of the musical spectrum to the "warmer". I feel all offer that "oneness" Bobby describes.
JB
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