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I think this thread is a good example of why some people are constantly tweeking while others are constantly enjoying their record collection.
... but then I checked out your system :-)
I try not to veer too far off course when I try something new. I also try to keep my mind open to all of the possibilities. That's why I keep hanging out here. I'm willing to take a chance every now and then on a wild tweak, but taking the screws out of something and putting them back in every six months sounds more destructive than constructive to me. I think I'll pass on that one. I'll be the first guy to strip the threads out of anything, wood or metal!I've also learned the hard way that sometimes when you tweak something, it's hard to get it back to where you started. Sometimes all you're really doing is hearing change, but not making any real improvements. It's taken me a while to realize that some of the suggestions that we read on the Asylum come from people who have no desire other than to keep changing the sound of their system.
There's nothing wrong with that either, as long as you know it up front.
Btw, I checked your system too. Love those reel to reel machines. Nice set up. I would like to make or buy a bigger rack like that some day. Very cool.
screws out and putting them back in.the only screws that i have found that did not require retightening were screws that were --locked-- in place with a dab of paint or glue on the screw head/basket.
whether 40yr old altec/jbl/telefunken/ev/coral/etc if they didnt have some kind of locking mechanism the woofers always and sometimes the midranges but hardly ever the tweeters needed to have the mounting screws tightened.
and i regularly find tweeter faceplate screws that need tightening.
not the screws that mount the faceplate to the baffle but the screws that mount the motor to the faceplate.
im not talking about full turns of the screws but maybe anywhere from 1 turn to 1/8th.
I used to that to my Thiels often enough, but then again I changed so many midrange drivers in those speakers I have no credit as a tweako nut since the only way I found to do that was, in fact, to take the screws out and put them back in!I like the Quiet man's approach and think his system is cool and anyone who has a music first approach is more that all right in my book.
The screws on both the Response 2 and Response 3 needed tightening at least every couple of months. Just the mid/woofers, not the tweeters.
Why not use locktite if threaded inserts or a wee bit of wood glue if just screws, this shouldnt happen every few months somethings amiss.
Well, that makes sense. Some of this is from memory, so forgive me if I get it wrong. As I remember, I had to use nut drivers to tighten. And I was never sure I was tightening bolts or screws (i.e., was there a nut at the other end, which could fall into the speaker, or what?). So I did the tightening the "easy" way, albeit more frequently than I probably should have. It would have helped if I'd asked for some advice, but this was "pre AA" and I was lazy :-)
Frequent tightening is a bit besides the point since the screws go directly into MDF most of the time and it simply chews it up. Whether you like it or not, you get to the point where you have to put some Plastic Wood or Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty or some such in the holes just to tighten the screws. Might as well put some before the holes get chewed up and leave it like that. Believe me driver screws should be set and forget.Audio neurosis knows no bounds, pretty soon you will start telling one and all about those expensive little gizmos you have to keep those expensive speaker cables off the floor lest they react violently with synthetic carpet fibres!
This all happened 8-10 years ago after reading about loosening driver screws/bolts in an audio mag. I checked mine, they were very loose, and I routinely tightened them (carefully, not too tight) after this. Big deal.And yes I keep my Home Depot speaker cables up off the syntheic carpet with little gizmos I made myself. Total cost, maybe 3 bucks. Sue me.
Look, if you spend three bucks and are content, happy or satisfied who am I to rain on your parade, let alone sue you.My point: it can do more harm than good if you make a habit of screwing around with the screws.
Don't you think that at the prices asked for many speakers the manufacturers could devise better ways to secure drivers to enclosures than using wood screws directly into MDF?
Almost every used speaker I get that I like I swap drivers around, and listen.This goes for woofers, mids, and tweeters too.
Most have no idea just how some speakers can be improved by this simple tweak!
It is time consuming, true, and sometimes one must admit defeat, and put all back "like it was".
But 9 times out of ten, a speaker can be improved by just swapping drivers around.
I always put em in upside down from the way they came out too, just for kicks.
I don't really believe in supension sag, but I sleep better .....
Oh, and I also take Ice Cubes and "Cryo" the terminals.
Gotta keep those electrons happy ya know ??
And you do that on your, what is it, 600 pairs of speakers?
`
Have to be careful with that. There are a number of speaker manufacturers that test and group drivers and crossover together, so swapping is likely to worsen speaker to speaker uniformity. For example, in the later examples of LS3/5a, KEF used to sell driver sets that matched woofer, tweeter and crossover to the OEM manufacturers, to be installed as a setin the enclosure.
I trust MY ears more then the claims of a manufacturer that they "test" and match drivers/crossovers/etc, etc.Plus, I usually buy used speakers with some age on them.
Things drift with age, and even if matched, they can drift away from spec.Sometimes simply swapping drivers yields vast improvements in sound, and sometimes it don't.
No big deal if it don't work, I make notes, and can always put it back to stock.
Gravity can gradually deform the mechanical suspension of a woofer and/or cone driver, eventually causing the voice coil to drag. Non-linear motion of the driver, reduced driver output, and permanent damage to the driver(s) are possible results. If you ever notice a rasping sound coming from a driver, you'll know what has happened. Rotating the drivers 180 degrees once a year can help keep driver surrounds round...
Can't say can't happen, but I am not convinced that it is really sag due to gravity or something else.
Had Mende radio build in 1930 with about 8" driver, used without hitch until about 1986 when capacitor crapped (gave it to some guy to fix never to see it again).
Uncle still has Grundig Radio from 50s, no problemsFriend's JBL (can't recall model, with wood grilles) his father bought in late 50-s, still works fine. Friend's AR14 from I think 70's with shredded surround, worked until two years ago when he finally ditched it, similar with friends Dynaudio 21W54 (he finally bough kit to fix it).
My Monitor Audio (RA66?) from early 80-s, still works without problems, etc. etc.As much as tightening bolts, none of the above exhibited any problems. Note that if you really do not know proper torque, it is very easy to overtorque bolt.
I've been doing that for years.
I also store not being listened to speakers on their backs for the same reason.
Wouldnt this cause driver to sag? Just in a dif direction.I dont see the need to do this if fasters need tightening then use locktite or a bit of wood glue on threads.Sun light and O2 damages drivers the most, keep out of sun, cover with clean white cloth, control temp and humidity you can store drivers like this for decades. I have a vintage collection I have never found a driver with such a sag in cone caused but vert storage in cabinets.But YMMV and if you feel the need to store with loudspeakers on backs drivers up go for it but I do see where driver would be easy to damage when stored so hope you dont have kids or pets.I do think removing driver place cone down bolted to board to be best for long term storage but if in cabinets best to leave in normal position
...should rotate her boobs?
Just when you're finally used one being slightly smaller than the other folks like you wanna play switchy!
Gimme a break; :)
d.b.
The spider holds everything in position and I've never seen a spider sag to one side or the other. I have two sets of Altecs that are almost 50 years old with the drivers never rotated and no ill effects. And 12 and 15 inch woofers no less.Of course old Altec drivers are of superb mechanical quality.
Driver sagging has been known to happen on occasion. I was alerted to the potential problem at the Clements loudspeaker website...
And what about the fastener? Are yours threaded inserts? If just screws your going to need to replace with larger size after a few times of this.I have owned 40 year old loudspeakers that drivers never where removed from.I never noticed or heard of any vintage users with this problem.With just a slip of your screw driver you could damage cone etc so why take a chance? If you feel the need to do so maybe every 2-6 years might make more sence to me but with all things audio YMMV.
A cure worst than the ailment. I hope there are no doctors with such ideas frequenting this site,
Listening to Jennifer Warnes' "Way Down Deep" (which is that!) very loud and one of the Cornwalls made some nasty sounds. I thought I had a dragging VC in a woofer. Popped the back and checked the screws. All screws on all drivers were a little loose. Tightened them up and the problem was gone. I thus decided to pop the back on the other one and tighten its driver screws prophylactically.Once in 30-ish years doesn't seem too bad...
all the best,
mrh
Years ago when I first became aware of audio nervosa, I checked the driver screws regularly. If you read the audio magazines, you got the impression that loose driver screws were a persistent affliction of all loudspeakers. I soon found out that in my case, it was just a lot of hooey. Just for shits and giggles, I've checked from time-to-time over the years, only to be disappointed with tight driver mounting screws. Maybe the manufacturer didn't tight the screws enough in the first place? If you have a persistent problem, may I suggest a dab of Lok-tite on the threads? That should cure the problem.
Every six months for my DIY subwoofer screws.
I use eight screws per 12" or 15" driver and usually have four drivers in use in the house. Some screws get slightly loose after six months, but not a majority. I've been thinking about glueing the screws in place for my DIY speakers since about 1971 but as soon as I do, I know I'll want to replace the driver.My EPOS ES11 speakers have no screws -- the front baffle acts as the bass/mid driver "frame" -- a very interesting design. If the tweeter has external screws I've never found them.
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Richard BassNut Greene
Subjective Audiophile 2007
Ba-dum bum.
Perhaps your screws need checking?
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Richard BassNut Greene
Subjective Audiophile 2007
If they are set to the proper torque with a fine threaded
case hardened screw .......why?If it is wood screws torqued into MDF then eventually they
will pull the thread from tightening them all the time and they
will get worse over time
God help us.
manufacturer to see if there is a specific torque setting used when the driver's fasteners are tightened. then i would only do it a few times a year to coincide with the humid time and dry time of the year in your area. you may strip a srcew hole if over tightened or tightened too often. if the manufacturer uses a specific torque setting, i can recommend a wonderful and relatively inexpensive tool for you.
b
A pair of speakers -- which I found on the used market-- has at least half of its threads stripped. Still not sure what to do about it.So the idea of knowing the torque, if one is specified by the manufacturer, sounds like a good one.
some speakers can respond in incredible ways when the correct torque setting is used. torque setting in inch pounds is very sensitive work and almost impossible to set by hand/touch. with foot pounds certainly there is more touch potential there but torque setting the fasteners will control resonances or tune them and alter the q of the enclosure to a degree. this is touchy work in a sophisticated speaker that is highly tuned.
if you have stipped threads in a wooden enclosure get some appropriately sized dowls from a hardware and tap them in after applying wood glue. drill a pilot after cured and you are all set. try a little hand soap on the screw tip so they do not bind up and the torque can be set easier. good luck with your repair.
bobby
I'll give it a try!
A man with decent mechanical aptitude can torque a screw pretty close by feel; usually when I given size screw feels right it's torqued right. Especially when talking silly little machines like speakers. Of course there's always some klutz that overtightens and breaks screws or crossthreads them but then that's how we define a klutz isn't it?Torquing screws on steam generator manways in nuclear plants to 2400 pounds or bolting heads on heat exchangers in chemical plants and powerhouses are different stories of course. Though it's surprising how many times you'd whale on a slugging wrench with 12 pound beater till it pinged just right and when you put the torque wrench with 6' extension on it you were on the money.
nt
that's how it IS!
WarmestTimbo in Oz
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio ScroungerAnd gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
Tell me: in Oz do you actually have to turn screws in the opposite direction than in Canada?
Nope!
WarmestTimbo in Oz
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio ScroungerAnd gladly would he learn and gladly teach - Chaucer. ;-)!
'Still not saluting.'
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