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In Reply to: Re: ALL, and I mean ALL of the reputable evidence shows that you CAN hear in a DBT test posted by Phil Tower on November 28, 2002 at 12:09:02:
What about working 16 bit and better cd players or properly working Solid State amplifers.Cables...let's get the bigger difference stuff out of the way...if amps all sound alike then why bother going to cables? I know that depending on the gauge and depending on the length...there should be some differences...or the wire maker does something strange to the wire.
Ultimately the tests are not practical to regular Joe Shmoe...Unless of course they've tested what you want to buy...it would also be nice if Joe Shmoe was tested not Joline Doe III.
Of course I often wonder why companies like APEX and RCA don't conduct these tests.
If I'm president and CEO of RCA I can stand up and say..."see nobody could tell the difference between our $59.00 portable cd player and the Linn CD12...you the buyer can have the same level of audible performance as a $20,000.00 cd player for $59.00."
Follow Ups:
...if amps all sound alike then why bother going to cables?They don't
...you the buyer can have the same level of audible performance as a $20,000.00 cd player for $59.00.
Same answer as jj.
rw
"...you the buyer can have the same level of audible performance as a $20,000.00 cd player for $59.00.Same answer as jj."
OK...how about we increase the RCA cd player to a certain $89.00 model and decrease the 20k cd player to "some 1k cd players." Surely the Sensible Sound has no reason to lie about their findings(well to sell magazines for their targeted readers - but besides that).
How bout RCA pick on Sony...The masses don't know Linn anyway. SO let's take Sony's SCD1(in CD mode). Too expensive then we'll take one of the lower ES models around 1k.
Then RCA can change their slogan slightly by noting the SPECIFIC model of the SONY - or ANY OTHER known 1k cd player.
Makes great advertising for the cheapo companies - helps them sell more of their product...yet none of these companies can put on a prodfessionally done no holds bar test to help the consumer not get sucked in by audio jewelry.
Hmm Let's say I own Pioneer Electronics Corp. and I have introduced my 201 reciever for $199.00. My sales have been down lately(like Pioneer is going through right now).
So let's see, what would be a great way for me to INCREASE sales? I know...I will take the top of the line Krell and I will bring in 200 listeners(separately of course) and conduct the highest standards ever to DBT testing between the two amps. Making sure that I use 95db sensitive or better speakers at 8ohm with no wild impedence swings.
After the people FAIL to significantly distinguish a difference(and they likely will fail - geez Pionner already had a model like this no?). I can then bring out my advertising campaign -
"Pioneer's NEW REVOLUTIONARY design has just determined that our new $199.00 receiver is just as good AUDIBLY as the most expensive amplifier in the world the Krell__________. Pioneer has made this revolution to bring high end audio to those consumers that have not, UNTIL NOW, had the opportunity to get KRELL sound for a mere Pittance. Our new 201, naturally, isn't made of exotic materials but our engineers have bypassed that need and made an amplifier that trained listeners(which is part of a good/real DBT)(what the heck make all the listeners composers and musicians and golden ears), could not distinguish.
Yes Folks that's right our new 201 has equalled the best amplifier in the world for sonic purity, as far as it is detectable by the human year, and instead of $70,000.00 you pay $199.00(if you buy our $399.00 model(the 501) then you can drive 2-4ohm speakers as well).
That's right NO ONE(except perhaps those with ultra sonic hearing) will be able to tell the difference.
Hey I should run either or all of Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony, Denon, Technics, YORX, Sanyo, RCA, Electrohome, LG, AIWA, Marantz, Phillips, Onkyo, Cambridge Audio, Bryston, NAD, Arcam etc.
Geez I wonder why none of them has made this statement(Heck especially Bryston). Look what they have to GAIN from that advertising. Lots of folks would like a 70K amp for $199.00(ok $399.00 if you have tough speakers).
I wonder why NONE of them NOR any other company does such a thing? Surely I'm not a marketing genius and I'm the only person to think of this right? I mean they would have the JAES to back them up on any technical aspect of the science sop they SURELY are not afraid of being sued, right ? There would have to be a reason for being sued Right? AHHH!! now we know. There is a reason to be afraid of being sued isn't there?
Bugger!!! Maybe you really do have to spend more to get more. Damn It!!!
Read your post. I was hoping for better from this forum. Sounds to me like you are equating good sound with expensive equipment. This is, to my mind, as bad a position as stating that everything sounds the same. It may be more interesting if you posted some kind of reasoning instead of declaring yourself as some kind of marketing genius. I don't think you will be running any of the companies you mentioned any time soon. Maybe you, like so many others have done, should take a stab at dressing up run-of-the-mill Belden wire and selling it at incredible prices based on unsubstantiated claims and be satisfied that the insane audio press has taken such complete control of audiophile's minds that it is a widely held belief that no objective testing and no amount of measurements can ever prove or disprove anything. Pity the fool who spends mega dollars on hype shrouded pseudo audio mysteries when there are so many good recordings to be bought.
Geez I wonder why none of them has made this statement...Easy. It is not true.
Ohh but that would mean SS amps sound different(or make an audible difference when running a speaker) no? Or perhaps the Sensible Sound was incorrect in their RCA test(Geez I wish they would have listed the indistinguishable 1k CD players from the $89.00RCA). Of course I've always wondered why they didn't...I mean they could not be sued...errr Or maybe they could...Does RCA own the Sensible Sound? Hmmm.
Ohh but that would mean SS amps sound different(or make an audible difference when running a speaker) no?Yes.
But I'm too polite to suggest the answer there.
JJ - Philalethist and Annoyer of Bullies
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