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In Reply to: Did you get your Clever Little Clock yet? posted by Dan Banquer on March 1, 2007 at 05:13:01:
You are such an idiot, Dan. If you would look down below you would see my arguments with Geoff Kait regarding his products. If you had read anything else I have written you would KNOW I don't support those kinds of products and then you wouldn't write this kind of rubbish because it is patently false.Dan, who is the personal attacker here? It is YOU!!
"First you trash specifications,then you trash standards, then if you are successful in doing both of those, you can sell any garbage you want."Maybe if pseudo engineers like yourself would stop blindly using virtually meaningless metrics for sound performance (like THD) and get to work to define some REAL metrics and standards then I would be whole hearted endorser of good measuring gear (because then it might actually sound good too). Get off your lazy butt and find out what really is important and how to specify it. I have no patience for meaningless metrics. I don't use them in the lab and as a result our data is well correlated with the real phenomenon.
The idea of correlating measurements to experience never even occurs to you, does it?
Follow Ups:
I just love it when people accuse me of not listening. That’s when I think all the audio meetings and presentations I went to, and all the times I went to someone else’s place to listen, or out to a retail shop to listen to whatever. I also think about all the time I spent listening to various recordings during prototype work on all the gear I designed and built. I also can reflect on all the time I spend in my Lab/office listening to music either for the sheer pleasure of it or while I am working on a project.
I can even think to my formal training in music, practicing and playing up to 12 hours a day and those ear training courses I got to take every semester. Are you aware of how much you really have to listen if you are playing music with other people? Trust me when I tell you that it gets pretty intense either when either you are reading music or doing improvisation and sometimes a bit of both. My minor was Tympani; which calls for the timpanist to change tuning on the fly. My teacher made me practice those intervals in a “quote” melody, which was without a key center and definitely atonal. I could only take an hour of that a day as it was just too morbid.I am saving this post on my computer: and I will use it the next time someone decides that since I happen to design audio equipment and take electrical engineering seriously, that my only ability is to read a meter.
Morricrab: you and your ilk, are nothing more than arrogant fakers. I am not fooled, and neither are the thousands of others who left “high end” because of dysfunctional illiterates like yourself.
So answer the question: Do you have your Clever little clock yet? The magazine you write for endorses it, in fact it even gave it an award.
d.b.
> The idea of correlating measurements to experience never even occurs
> to you, does it?But there is a catch. In order to correlate measurements and listening impressions in a valid manner (for doing science) one must perform controlled subjective listening tests or else nobody except audiophiles will take any notice of the results. As you know, in controlled listening tests almost all the differences perceived by audiophiles disappears.
How would you suggest Dan goes about correlating measurements and subjective impressions?
...in controlled listening tests almost all the differences perceived by audiophiles disappearsSuch controlled listening tests rarely, if ever, uses the highest resolution audio gear. The "best" cabling used in Roger Russell's comic book on wires is 12 gauge zip. Versus 24 gauge zip. Yawn. Tests prove what they prove on that which is tested. Nothing more. Remember that scientific thing?
Tell us the gear used in any one of the "best examples" of testing to which you refer. Oh, that's right. As a scientist, you cannot divulge the conditions on which a test is conducted in order for others to replicate the results. Such details are irrelevant to the scientific method, right?
rw
You don't even know the difference between marketing and fact.
You don't have the qualifications, you don't have the background, and you don't have the intellect, all you have is the persistence to keep showing your ignorance.
You make me puke;
d.b.
Zero content?rw
my wife's poor health mainly. Now that it's done it such a relief not to have to be polite to idiots like your self. Have you begun to seek treatment yet? It's long overdue.
BTW: Do you have your Clever Little Clock yet?
d.b.
Follow moniker to answer your question.rw
Such a pity, it's the natural progression for all of you subjectivist dysfunctional illiterates. So tell me, what are you going to do when HP gives the CLC a glowing review? My bet is you'll dance to whatever tune he plays.
You make me puke;
d.b.
I'll be paying him a visit next week, so I'll ask him just for you. :)rw
The spirit of Bud Fried is alive and well.
d.b.
It is likely HP met Bud sometime in the past. I always liked his full name: I M Fried. Evidently, he was one of those "perverts" (audiophiles) as you put it. This is from the company website:"About Fried Products Corporation: Fried Products Corporation was founded by a group of audiophiles , including the late Bud Fried, in 2004 to preserve, protect and advance the art and science of loudspeaker design and production.
rw
If anyone here needs a psych evaluation its you to get over the hatred and resentment you feel over the hifi business. Go on, Dan, lie on the couch and tell me your problems. Get it all out. Tell me about your mother. Were you abused as a child? Do you have suppressed memories that manifest themselves in various unpleasant ways?Most of the rest of us are quite well adjusted and having fun with a hobby. Sure we take it somewhat serious because most of have a fair amount of money invested and we want high performance for that money. However; very few people go running around insulting just about everyone who doesn't think like we do (only you and SM seem so crass and arrogant).
I hope you realize just how far you are now from a sophisticated, well educated engineer you claim to be. Your utter lack of civil or indeed even semi-decent behavior is shocking given your claimed level of expertise.
FWIW I have lots of clocks, one of them is pretty clever (it updates the time automatically from satillite so I guess that makes it pretty clever) but none have anything to do with audio and none ever will.
I find it funny that because we disagree on what kind of amplification works the best you think that it puts me into bed with Geoff Kait and his ilk. Wake up and pull your head out of your you know what!
I have heard literally DOZENS of amps designed like you advocate and not one sounds realistic. Not one. So something must be wrong then with those designs. I am not anti-transistor as both amps I own use them partially (hybrids). For now I am anti-feedback because experience shows me (because I listen to all kinds of amps without initial prejudice) that amps with feedback in general sound worse than those without. Also, many articles I have read suggest that feedback causes more problems than it cures...particularly from an audible distortion POV.
Just because this flies in the face of your orthodoxy is not my problem. Maybe you should really investigate the phenomenon (it is hardly an isolated incident) and see if YOU can make a no feedback design with decent measured specs (some exist you know). Then compare the sound of that design to your previous ones. Or do you lack the talent to give that a real shot? Safer to use the feedback crutch, right? Afterall the meter says its better nevermind your ears (you claim to listen but...??).
BTW, how many amps did you ship that were flawed like the schematic? Maybe feedback covered up the problem...sounded the same with it right or wrong...right? But hey it measured the same. LOL!
Thank you once again for proving that you are totally and utterly dysfunctional and illiterate I guess it pays to advertise eh?
Do you own the Clever Little Clock yet, inquiring minds want to know!
d.b.
"Do you own the Clever Little Clock yet, inquiring minds want to know!"Can't your read? I answered that question. Guess that illiteracy is spreading, oops you caught it.
Well then; according to the magazine you write for you're just not getting the most out of your audio system. Get in gear there Morricrab, time's a wasting.
BTW: Does your editor know of the sterling recommendation you gave to something he gave an award to? Are you trying to embarass your "esteemed editor"?
d.b.
You have some very strange idea about the way things work with a web magazine...seek psychological help. Do you think its a dictatorship where everyone has to agree with what the editor gives an award too?You are really too bizarre.
See link: and remember this is watered down form what really happens.
d.b.
I find it funny you keep referring to Lynn Olsen, Mr. DIY SET guy. If you look at his own webpages you will see he is deep into tube gear. Yet because he gave your amp a good rating once you use him as a paragon of audio journalism or something (not that he is not but it is not the reason).Just to show how much more he is in my philosophical camp than yours (or am I in his?) here is a quote about his Amity and Karna amplifiers:
"One thing I really like about the Amity and the Karna is the extraordinary transparency and vividness of tone color; to me, they are better than anything else I’ve heard. What’s interesting is that intrinsic low distortion sounds quite different than low distortion attained through feedback techniques; low-distortion-via-feedback has a characteristic “clean” sound, akin to a well-designed transistor amplifier, but the tone colors tend to be flattened out and diminished compared to a no-feedback design.
When the devices themselves are linear it sounds quite different. As before, the sound is “clean” in the sense of absence of coloration, but there’s so much more. Tone colors are vivid; textures are right there in front of you - you hear the sound of skin on drums, the woodiness of a cello, the weight and scale of a piano, and the emotional inflections of a singer. You stop listening to hi-fi and start experiencing music. This is the realm of the direct-heated triode, the most linear device of all, but also the most tempermental.
"
I didn't realize I was part of some larger "ilk." LOLIf you don't mind my saying so, you have much more in common with brother Banquer than you might realize. Now, why don't you two knuckleheads kiss and make up, maybe form an anti Machina Dynamica Alliance. Then everyone will be happy. LOL
~ Cheers
"maybe form an anti Machina Dynamica Alliance"I can't possibly think of a bigger waste of time. Why would I waste energy beyond posting to debate anything your products "do"? Get real.
Machina Dynamica is just the logical conclusion to subjectivist dysfunctional illiterate audio.
First you throw away specifications, then you throw away standards, then you can sell anything you want, such as snake oil.
You and your ilk asked for it Morricrab, deal with it.
d.b.
"First you throw away specifications, then you throw away standards"I never advocated throwing anything away. I advocated improving them so that they are more meaningful. Big difference.
I don't endorse his products so I am not of his "ilk".
You have not debated anything yet. Where did you ever get that idea? All I've gotten from you is the old, "I'm a PhD and I know that science can't explain these things so they can't possibly work," routine. Repeatedly.It is you you suffers from lack of reality. Maybe get out of that chemical lab and get some fresh Swiss air more often.
~ Cheers
Geoff go look at past discussions where I brought up ideas about light/matter interaction. Dang, Dan is right this illiteracy is just spreading all over. Go see a doctor I think you may not be able to read for much longer.BTW, I was in Gstaad last weekend, beautiful Swiss alps covered in snow and a lunar eclipse to boot (it made everything sound better...really if you haven't tried listening during an eclipsed moon then you can't say it doesn't help. HA!)
You didn't bring up anything of consequence; you only clained that you knew "something" about it. Big deal!And what if you were to win a "technical argument" (as unlikely as that might be) - where would that leave us? Ans: Still back at square one in terms of whehter or not the Chip works. I can see you are going to be a difficult case.
BTW I climbed Dents du Midi many many years ago, and saw solar eclipse from the summit. I win again!!
~ Cheers
"You didn't bring up anything of consequence; you only clained that you knew "something" about it. Big deal! "Not true. I think its too late for you now the illiteracy could be irreversible.
"Still back at square one in terms of whehter or not the Chip works."
Not really, already tried and found it doesn't work so I stopped trying to find out why this "something" doesn't work. No sense chasing phantoms when there are plenty of real problems to solve.
"BTW I climbed Dents du Midi many many years ago, and saw solar eclipse from the summit. I win again!!"
Oh there was a competition about something? I guess it says everything about your personality...jerkus maximus. Yep in that category you certainly "win".
Your "arguments" are like a Swiss clock: same old movements over and over again. Name-calling and lack of substance is the essence of your game, and this has become quite boring. I always enjoy "debating" with people like you - well, up to a point. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.Ta-ta
Except you are the fish in that barrel.
I can never tell when you are being serious and trying to be cutting or trying to be humorous. Maybe you just can't think of original material.I know what you're thinking: "Why is this person hounding me? I am a reviewer for a major audio publication. I must know something!! LOL
~ Aus Leiderhosen
You are just one long running clichè Geoff. Used cars come to mind. "aus lediderhosen" get the picture.
The feeling is mutual.There is just no getting through to some people.
GK
You weren't civil or nice even when you were running a company and trying to sell to us "idiots". My guess is that your nastiness on this forum cost you a lot of business so that even if your product was the best thing since sliced bread there are some here who wouldn't give it a second thought. Think about it.
I got a lot of compliments from my customers on the way I stood my ground here and elswhere. You just can't buy that integrity these days.
Do you own the Clever Little Clock yet? Inquiring minds want to know?
d.b.
Like the ones who think your a schmuck would write to you and say "Gee Dan your such a schmuck I am not going to buy anything from you". Most likely they simply don't waste the time and don't bother to contact you.
Well I can say this: To the best of my knowledge I don't have any customers like you; they are far more intelligent in matters related to audio.
Have a nice day
d.b.
LOL!
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