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198.151.12.10
NT
Follow Ups:
...due to the fact that I wasn't willing to put up with the lies and deceptions of the JREF administrator at this time.
and introduce other complicating factors. Mr. Kramer seems a lot more patient than I would be. It's not a question of your being dishonest, BTW: I quite agree with Mr. Kramer that you seem honest and convinced.My advice is:
1. Do a simple SBT with a reliable friend. If you can't disprove the null hypothesis, forget about it and listen to music. If you do get positive results, then
2. Do a DBT. Kramer's advice to do a preliminary test is a good one. If you can't disprove the null hypothesis, forget about it and go listen to music. If you do get positive results, then
3. Set up an actual definite date with the Randi organization. And don't bring in silly complications having nothing to do with the DUT. They evidently know more about how to do a good DBT than you do.
I don't think you will "pass" either the SBT or the preliminary DBT much less the controlled one but that's your problem.
____________________________________________________________
"Nature loves to hide."
---Heraclitus of Ephesus (trans. Wheelwright)
I agree, given all the attention given the self DBT matter, I should have stepped back, agreed to this request and then resumed negotiations. The Vivid treatment was a part of my original protocol proposal and it took them some time to reject that proposal. In retrospect there seems to have been a lot of putting the cart before the horse coming from both sides. In my defense, I was simply looking to have a protocol established to base my blind testing upon. JREF does not stipulate self testing as a requirement. They simply recommend it. A confused and acrimonious muddle resulted.
I slogged through the summary page and a bunch of the 20 pages of rambling. I'm not sure exactly what the problem is. The process seemed to be:1- You submitted a protocol
2- Kramer, or whomever, asked for some changes
3- You made some changes he asked for, and some he didn't
4- He asked for some clarification
5- You clarified a few things, and left some unclear
6- Etc...It seems like a general breakdown in communication. Basically, you need to submit a thorough proposal for testing, and in the process of clarifying and making things more clear to each other, both sides got frustrated.
Your original proposal was horribly vague in several areas, and I never saw any of these cleared up. Instead of clarifying, you made changes. Then those changes needed clarification. (IE I never really got why you needed a "placebo" chip, how about one treated and one left alone?)
I think what really sunk you was that you wouldn't submit a definitive date. All you had to do was say "June 27" and get a yes/no reply. You're going to have a bunch of people flying to your house, a "sometime in June" timeframe won't cut it.
/*Music is subjective. Sound is not.*/
May I so humbly resubmit my protocol, which is designed for two people (one listener and one proctor) but can probably be modified if observers/whatever are required. You get to listen to your own system. You can handle the discs. You can clean them or spray them or whatever. You can do anything you want while listening, you just have to figure out which one of three discs has been treated. Of course, for a full test you'll need a LOT of CD's. www.amazon.com is your friend, and the cost of twenty or thirty CD's is well worth it for a smacking $1 million windfall :)
/*Music is subjective. Sound is not.*/
...the matter is a lot more complicated than the typical person would be able to grasp without an extremely thorough review of all the dialog. The typical person isn't going to expend the energy. I enlisted the counsel of Steve Eddy regarding the Challenge prior to submitting my application. Because Steve has graciously followed the proceedings from an early stage he has the basic sense of what took place over there. Some of Steve's facts are amiss and I will address those under his posting. I don't want to get into the details of what took place over at JREF right now as it has been an exhausting and frustrating experience to say the least. I am at peace knowing that I gave my best effort with honesty and sincerity, this is not to say I was faultless. Unfortunately it appears that there was some type of subterfuge committed by the Challenge Facilitator. I don't want to speculate publicly on his motivations. All I can tell you is that he didn't facilitate squat and did not act in good faith despite appearances to the contrary. I believe the truth can be discerned by analyzing the complete record. I do have the matter well documented.
I read through all twenty pages of that thread and all I saw them doing is going out of their way to accomodate you and your waffling...over and over again. It was obviously something they had never done with anyone else before and I thought they were being quite patient with you. I thought for a minute they would have agreed to give you a gilded chair to sit on during the test if you'd asked. They started out very open minded and accomodating with you and it was only after you started the "I can't do THIS because of THAT" routine over and over that they began to loose patience with you. I'm amazed they played along as long as they did.
ALL you had to do is try to identify whether a disk was treated or untreated. That's it...period...and you could have been an instant millionaire. They certainly didn't seem to me to be trying to deceive anyone. They were just trying to set down some solid ground rules and good controls, most obviously not to your liking.You seen so concerned with "deception" but yet you can't see the deception being carried out by the makers of this chip? That doesn't bother you in the least but trying to expose this scam for the deception that it is DOES bother you?
Let me say that while I've been as skeptical and critical of the GSIC as anyone (and still am), I've always had the utmost respect for Wellfed. When he decided to take up the JREF challenge I let him know that I would support him in any way I could. He took me up on my offer and I've been following this whole saga both online at the JREF forums as well as via EMail and telephone conversations with Wellfed. So I'm not someone who's jumped into the fray here late in the game.Having said that...
I read through all twenty pages of that thread and all I saw them doing is going out of their way to accomodate you and your waffling...over and over again. It was obviously something they had never done with anyone else before and I thought they were being quite patient with you. I thought for a minute they would have agreed to give you a gilded chair to sit on during the test if you'd asked. They started out very open minded and accomodating with you and it was only after you started the "I can't do THIS because of THAT" routine over and over that they began to loose patience with you. I'm amazed they played along as long as they did.
I don't know what you read, but after reading what I have (which encompasses several different threads on the Million Dollar Challenge forum), I concluded just the opposite.
In my opinion, KRAMER is an absolute prick who I think should have no business being involved in the challenge whatsoever. His role according to JREF is that of what they call a "facilitator." What a fucking joke. "Antagonist" would be a much more suitable title.
And accommodating? I saw little or no evidence of that.
Right from the start they rejected the original protocol that Wellfed had proposed, without ever giving any particular reason for it so that any differences might be worked out.
Wellfed wanted to do the listening in his own home with his own system, which is the environment he'd been experiencing the differences all along. They didn't like that.
He also wanted to use the Walker Vivid on his discs, just as he'd been doing all along. They shot that down for no apparent reason.
And on and on.
And while this is going on, KRAMER persistently denegrated and insulted Wellfed.
The guy's a fucking joke.
And in a post by KRAMER from yesterday, in a new thread regarding some new claimant, he wrote:
The strictest protocol will be in place for this test, based upon the original "Steven Howard Protocol" which was submitted by Mr. Anda and then, upon unconditional acceptance by Randi, withdrawn by the applicant for reasons that will, with any luck, forever remain a mystery.
This is just absolute bullshit. The only mystery here is how KRAMER can say this with a straight face.
Some time back, someone named Steven Howard posted a suggested protocol. Wellfed said that he liked the suggested protocol in general, but not entirely and wanted some slight changes made to it.
He sent KRAMER a paste of Steven Howard's protocol along with the changes he wanted made to it.
Then KRAMER posts that Randi had agreed to the Steven Howard protocol EXACTLY AS POSTED BY STEVEN HOWARD with NO changes or addenda.
When Wellfed said that that that's not what he had agreed to, KRAMER went on one of his smear campaigns against Wellfed, much as he does in what's quoted above, even though Wellfed was on record numerous times prior to this stating that he was only agreeable to the Steven Howard protocol WITH CHANGES.
I pointed this out on one of the threads and KRAMER instead of addressing the issue, went into this obfuscational, self-righteous indignation routine.
I found it rather ironic as his behavior was strikingly similar to that of frauds and charlatans when they're exposed for what they are.
He went into a similar self-righteous indignation routine when Wellfed requested that he have is own observer(s) for the test as if cheating on JREF's part was somehow an absolute impossibility.
ALL you had to do is try to identify whether a disk was treated or untreated. That's it...period...and you could have been an instant millionaire.
Not so simple.
They certainly didn't seem to me to be trying to deceive anyone. They were just trying to set down some solid ground rules and good controls, most obviously not to your liking.
Why should everything necessarily be to JREF's liking to the exclusion of Wellfed?
Look, Wellfed's claims with regard to his perceiving differneces with the Chip have only been within the context of the environemnt and conditions of his own home with his own system, etc.
All he's ever really wanted was to be able to do his listening under conditions as close to that as possible. Which I believe is a more than reasonable request and one in which I think there can be a suitable protocol to accommodate.
However JREF seems to want to make the conditions of his listening tests as different from those upon which he's made his claims as possible.
Bottom line I've little or no reason to believe that KRAMER and/or JREF are acting in good faith.
When Wellfed telephoned me last night and told me he was going to withdraw his claim, I understood completely why he would be compelled to do so.
se
Thanks for speaking up on my behalf Steve. Having you along for the ride really did help me out considerably.There are a few facts out of order in your posting here. You do have the essence of the matter quite right IME. Here are some corrections.
1) JREF did give me a reason for rejecting my original protocol, I didn't consider it to be terribly compelling in practical terms, but I accepted their rejection without difficulty.
2) JREF never objected to the testing taking place in my own home. The facilitator did make some pissy and uncalled for comments on the subject.
3) Walker Audio Vivid was only rejected in relation to my original protocol. The Steven Howard Protocol was designed to allow the use of this type of accessory. Pissy comments were brought up over this type of accessory from time to time by the facilitator and some JREF Forum participants.
4) I didn't withdraw my claim, it was rejected by JREF when I told them I was going to put the whole matter on hold until October 1. I have been searching for weeks to find good faith on their part, when the facilitator wrote two more brazen lies, presumably intended to make me look bad, I decided that enough was enough. I had told JREF nearly a week back that if I didn't start to see some good faith in the negotiations I was going to table the matter until October 1. The facilitator deemed this to be a childish threat and stated that JREF would close my file if I chose to do so. I chose October 1 very deliberately for personal reasons. I simply have many infrequently encountered and first time family and personal events taking place between May and October. I wasn't about to subject myself to any more JREF induced aggravations over that time. Life is too short to shortchange my enjoyment of the blessed events I am looking forward to in the near future.
> I had told JREF nearly a week back that if I didn't start to see some good faith in the negotiations I was going to table the matter until October 1. The facilitator deemed this to be a childish threat and stated that JREF would close my file if I chose to do so.I think all they were looking for was a firm date, which I didn't see you provide. Maybe you did, maybe that post was deleted, but they seemed to really want a firm date. They have to make travel arrangements, after all.
The solution is simple: pick a date. October 2, say. That should make them happy.
/*Music is subjective. Sound is not.*/
Again a surprisingly involved matter. Initially (after the original protocol was rejected) they were pressing hard to set a date earlier than I was comfortable and without an acceptable protocol having been established. I stated having a strong preference for testing to occur in early August. I won't get into the details at this late hour. More recently they did not want to set a date until the protocol was nailed down despite my offering a conditional compromise to move the test dates up. As was typically the case, the facilitator misrepresented my offer, again in an effort to presumably make me look bad in the process. This type of behavior was a constant leading me to lose confidence that JREF was serious about seeing me tested. I have the documentation to support my view, but motives are difficult, if not impossible, to establish. Any interpretation of the pertinent record can not be established in absolute terms IME. Practically speaking I think there would be a clear consensus as to how most would interpret the events in question.
> Why should everything necessarily be to JREF's liking to the exclusion of Wellfed?Their money, their game. I think it's entirely reasonable that, since Wellfed gets to make the rules and come up with the test, JREF can request changes all day long. I don't think their requests were unreasonable, they just wanted a tightly controlled double blind senario. I don't think Wellfed entirely understood that position.
> Look, Wellfed's claims with regard to his perceiving differneces with the Chip have only been within the context of the environemnt and conditions of his own home with his own system, etc.
I don't recall seeing a single post saying it can't be with his own system in his own home.
> However JREF seems to want to make the conditions of his listening tests as different from those upon which he's made his claims as possible.
Adjustments must be made to be sure. He can't handle the discs. He can't see his system when the procedure is done. If his system is right between his speakers, well, that's a problem, isn't it? He'll have to figure it out, either suggest a change or a different protocol.
Their money, their game.
Certainly.
I think it's entirely reasonable that, since Wellfed gets to make the rules and come up with the test, JREF can request changes all day long.
Sure. But then they shouldn't expect to be taken seriously if they're going to play games like that.
I don't think their requests were unreasonable, they just wanted a tightly controlled double blind senario. I don't think Wellfed entirely understood that position.
I'm certain that he did.
I don't recall seeing a single post saying it can't be with his own system in his own home.
Must've missed this one from KRAMER on the first page of the Audio Critic thread:
But of course the protrocol needs work. For one thing, using his own system in his own home seems like a bad thing to do. The "coating" process seems to be another point that needs to be thrown out.
Ultimately they did agree to let him do the listening in his own home with his own system, but only with a three ring circus going on around him and not anything like his usual routine.
As long as the test discs were treated (or not treated as the case may be), labeled, etc. under a tightly controlled double blind scenario, there's absolutely no reason why Wellfed shouldn't have been allowed to simply take those discs home with him and listen to them at his leisure or do anything else with them that he wanted to, such as applying the Walker Vivid.
Adjustments must be made to be sure. He can't handle the discs.
Why not? As long as any handling is done after the disc has been treated (or not as the case may be), who cares? I mean JREF is betting that the GSIC is doing absolutely nothing to the discs.
He can't see his system when the procedure is done.
That's fine. Though I don't see why the procedure can't be done to all the discs prior to listening so that he can just be with himself and the dics and do whatever comparisons he likes with the reference disc, etc.
se
After my initial protocol was rejected I worked up a few scenarios with elements similar to what Steve is suggesting. These were given little attention. In the meanwhile Steven Howard suggested a good methodology and I turned my attention in that direction. As time went by I started developing the mindset that I was best served by simply replicating a typical listening session as closely as possible with the given restraints required to protect JREF's interests. Steven Howard's protocol had the most potential in this regard over any of the protocols I had been working on. One of the Forum participants (Gr8wight) offered to assist me in revising the Steven Howard protocol to meet my stated objectives. Gr8wight was quite gracious and spent considerable time working out the details. In the end this protocol too proved unsatisfactory to JREF. I was working on revisions when the shit hit the fan yesterday. One of the JREF Forum participants says that I talk too much, I am tending to agree with him at this particular moment. I better get to bed. ;-)
> Sure. But then they shouldn't expect to be taken seriously if they're going to play games like that.Like what? Is it unreasonable of them to request changes if they view the proposed test as flawed? They seemed to allow a lot of latitude, except for a few points which seemed reasonable. Again, YOU get to submit the protocol. It's *ENTIRELY* fair that they get to tweak it.
> I'm certain that he did.I'm not so sure. He didn't seem to understand why he couldn't see his system. Well, in the final protocol (the one testing GSIC against *no* GSIC, instead of a deactiated one) he shouln't be able to see if they are using the chip or not, and as a check against shananigans (IE cheating). Pretty basic. That KRAMER guy suggested a bedsheet, which Wellfed seemed to ignore.
> but only with a three ring circus going on around him and not anything like his usual routine.You mean, a guy in the room watching, and another guy coming in to apply the treatment? That's a total of (1) person in the room at all times, and (1) person in occasionally. I guess if you count Wellfed, that *could* be considered a three ring circus. Was Wellfed claiming he could only hear differences in treated and untreated discs when he was the only person in the room? This is something he should have checked in to before starting the claim process, maybe. Of course there would be an observer during the tests, if for no other reason to make sure there were no shenanigans going on. (IE Cheating)
> absolutely no reason why Wellfed shouldn't have been allowed to simply take those discs home with him and listen to them at his leisure or do anything else with them that he wanted to, such as applying the Walker Vivid.Because it's a *controlled* double blind test. All he gets to do is listen, if he took them home he could be subjecting them to other kinds of tests not in the protocol. Remember, JREF doesn't trust you, as much as you don't trust them. They have nothing to prove, weather the chip works or not. It's the applicant who has to prove to them that they can perform some feat within some parameters (that the *applicant* determines!)
> As long as any handling is done after the disc has been treated (or not as the case may be), who cares?They do. Why *would* he have to handle the discs? I didn't see him answer that question. The less the subject of the test has to do with the mechanics of it, the better, especially in this protocol. I proposed a protocol where the subject can do whatever they like to the discs a while ago in GA, I guess nobody read it.
> Though I don't see why the procedure can't be done to all the discs prior to listening so that he can just be with himself and the dics and do whatever comparisons he likes with the reference disc, etc.
That's the protocol I proposed :)
/*Music is subjective. Sound is not.*/
There is much in your post to comment on that will have to wait until tomorrow. I discussed some of the protocol history in my post to Steve directly above this posting. It is probably not relevant to your points, but provides some of my thoughts on the general nature of the protocol methodology that I feel most comfortable with. I did agree to the system "blind" that Kramer insisted upon. My last suggestion on eliminating my observers and thereby eliminating the need for the "blind" were largely ignored until Kramer again twisted the intent of my suggestion in the posting that caused me to put the Challenge on hold until October 1. This posting by Kramer contains two bald faced lies and I simply wasn't going to tolerate that type of behavior any longer.
I'm sorry it was such a nasty experience. It sounds like they got some other guy to give it a go. Maybe you can relay your experience to him/her, and your thoughts on what went wrong, and maybe he/she will have better luck.
/*Music is subjective. Sound is not.*/
is actually a female college student that frequents the JREF Forum who responded to a solicitation by Kramer to find somebody to test the GSIC more quickly than I was prepared to offer. He declared altruism as his motive. A sort of "somebody's got to save the world from those nasty GSIC purveyors" type of attitude. He leaves the distinct appearance of simply wanting to supplant me. Color me sensitive to the matter.
that she can hear a difference?
/*Music is subjective. Sound is not.*/
...so I would doubt that. I've paid very little attention to her application.
What did you think of page 20?
But...but...but.......he said.....but no, he said...but.....but....here's what really happened.....but...but...show me.......and there's Piano Man lurking in the background, laying down the outline of his next diatribe.The discussion and the people in them got lost on or about page 8.
What did you see in the specific charges of misdeeds I made on Page 20? I simply had to stop wasting my time dealing with a dishonest man. I offered to pick up the matter in October. This was the reason given for the rejection. I wasn't about to waste some of the best months of my life wrangling with a difficult person. The whole matter was a farce and I am surprised that I didn't put a halt to the nonsense sooner than I did. I will have to re-read the Challenge Rules, but I don't think he has grounds for this dismissal.
It's their money and you're making a claim that may or may not get that money taken away from them and be given to you. This is not an organization that's on the front page every night but they do have a market for possible media exploitation. Let's say you win the money and all of a sudden, the challenge, your abililty to hear something that cannot be explained, the fact that you won a million dollars and this mysterious chip that nobody can explain is out there. Now, the JREF, you and the GSIC are out there for the media to tear apart. Someone's gonna need to do some 'splainin.You can bet one of those dollars you win that well before any of this gets out, the JREF is going to make sure they have all their ducks in a row up front. They are going to set up a strict rule of order and protocol to make sure they cover all their bases. In the meantime, you're nitpicking about some tweak or condition that you've just GOT to have in place before you take this test and you're not budging. Why? Do you have to nearly replicate the system you have at home and have a special environment to hear the effect of this treatment? Wouldn't ANY decently resolving system in a reasonable comfortable room suffice or does the chip only work when the planets are perfectly aligned and Ashton Kucher has just gotten laid?
You set yourself up for exactly what happened over there and it was obvious from about the second week of those board exchanges where this was headed. You were obviously either not totally committed to this or didn't take it as seriously as the people who are going to shell out the dough did. They saw this, got tired of the BS and sent you away. Plain and simple.
...but I don't believe it is nearly that simple. Let me ask you a question. Why would they choose to resort to deception to accomplish their objectives? I can't say that I know what their objectives were regarding me, but I will say unequivocally that JREF practiced deception from an early point in the proceedings.Here is what is simple as I see the matter. The following is an excerpt that was attached to a number of my mailings to JREF over the last nine days. It was also posted on the JREF Forum.
"What, if anything, do you find about the following to be unsolvable?
As I see things I have the following desires that I see as being essential
1) Peaceful environment, free of unecessary distraction and noise
2) Enough time, 20 minutes of listening to an untreated subject disc, followed by 10 minutes to identify the state after “treatment”, eliminates any escape portal here
3) GSIC covered, not contained
4) My own observer in the selection room, this desire can be obviated with more complicated methods
I really can’t imagine having a problem with any sensible protocol that accounts for these items. FYI, Item 2 has become of greater concern to me since my original proposal. I live and learn.
These provisions, coupled with a reasonable test protocol consisting of 10 identifications, and the assurance that the final testing be identical to the preliminary testing are all that I require for you to test my claim."
I have stated repeatedly that I respect JREF's need to protect their interests. I even pointed out to Kramer a necessary security measure that he had himself overlooked. My position was to eliminate the measures that were unneccesary and that would only serve to distract. Had they given me reasoned explanations for any given rejection we could have presumably made faster progress. It almost seemed liked they viewed my claim as some type of sleight of hand card trick and didn't seem to be mentally on task with the nature of the claim.
The long and the short of the matter is a severe lack of good faith on Kramer/JREF's part. Along with his deceptions and outright lies, I found him to be unilaterally minded to an extreme that I had never before encountered. And finally what was really frustrating to me was what appeared to be an attention deficit on his part. Not a good mix IME.
Wellfed, they are just heckling you now. IF JREF could change the test enough so that you could NOT hear any difference, then they win, and you have wasted your time.
The audio system that we heard the chip at CES was better than the one I have here at home, and would be better than most hi fi's out there, in general.
First of all, I agree with the other poster below that this long discussion was reduced to a massive communication breakdown. That was why I made the remark yesterday that things started to fall apart after about the eighth page. I don't see how you, them or anyone else could keep up with what was what after a while, especially when that "Piano Teacher" character got on his essay soapbox. Combine that with offline discussions and emails and you get one big cluster f*ck.Second, I think the whole thing was being made more complicated than it should be for something that should be so easy to test. It's not like you're comparing cables, components or component modifications. It's a tweak that supposedly alters the physical state of a compact disk to change the way it presents its program material. Again, why all the stipulations on your part as to what you needed to hear a difference? THAT'S where they started to become skeptical of your intentions and the breakdown began. If this thing works as is claimed, ANY decently resolving system in a comfortable environment with music you're familiar with should suffice to make a determination of its effectiveness. Remember, there was a WHOLE GROUP at the CES who are supposed to have heard a difference with the chip under show conditions for Pete's sake. When you combine your stipulations with your remarks about your son's graduation (which I can understand would take front seat to any test), your vacation, school startup, doing this, doing that, the total looks like waffling on your part and a lack of determination to get this done. As a result, the length of the discussions, the variety of people doing the talking, the time period this was drawn out over, the frame of mind everyone ended up with, and the back and forth on what is what got you what you ended up with.
Ken you present a decent overview of many of the surface issues. The problem ultimately lies in the chicanery practiced by the facilitator. The deception is not readily discernable, but it is there nonetheless. I don't make this accusation casually, I definitely have the documentation to support my allegations. Ironically I'm back to having another claim that requires testing. Will this never end? ;-)
It’s always the same, I’m having a nervous breakdown, Drive me insane!
Dun-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un DUN DUN DUN!From what I've read on the JREF forums, it seems like it was largely a case of mutual misunderstanding. An open internet forum is probably not the best place for this kind of discussion. A few phone calls might have helped. I'm not sure what this RANDY guy was lying about, or misrepresnenting, but a good portion of the story seems clear on the boards.
> It almost seemed liked they viewed my claim as some type of sleight of hand card trick and didn't seem to be mentally on task with the nature of the claim.
Keep in mind, that makes up about 90% of their claimants. My favorite was a young Russian girl who claimed she could read without looking at the paper. Well, she had a rather prominent nose, which left a gap under her blindfold. A pair of opaque swim goggles and some duct tape later, she couldn't read blindfolded anymore. Her lawyers defense? "That's not a blindfold! She said she could only read when blinded by a blindfold!" Heh.
> And finally what was really frustrating to me was what appeared to be an attention deficit on his part.
Maybe you could ask for a different "Facillitator?" Could be the guy is just an ass.
In the end, they seemed to want clarification on point 1, and were fine on three and four, and two within reason. Remember, they want all the details locked down. (1) is pretty open ended.
...Too many actually. I had to finally conclude that their obstinance coupled with outright lies and fairly obvious deceptions was not a situation where I could expect to get a resolution any time soon. I patiently tried but was not willing to sacrifice my enjoyment of rare family and personal events slated for late spring and summer. I stipulated October 1 to also allow for getting my children settled back into school in September. I wish that it were simply a communications breakdown, it was not. Having a different facilitator was not an option as far as I know. Phone calls were not allowed by JREF either after we had our first serious run-in with each other over an incredibly blatant misrepresentation on the part of Kramer.
I'm not surprised, but I know that your heart was in the right place.
nt
out of respect for you, who has come across in all your postings that I have read here as polite, honest and a gentleman.I don't think I have ever quoted V.I.Lenin before, and he is so out of fashion, but I am reminded of his:
"If you want to do somethng you'll find a way; If you don't want to do it you'll find an excuse"
Does this mean, for example, one can marry anyone they desire if they just put their heart into it?
Could you post the Email chain?
/*Music is subjective. Sound is not.*/
...this is what I have come to expect from you despite any disagreement over the GSIC.Do you have any methods you can recommend to easily interleave the emails. If you would write to me I could simply forward all the correspondence to you. Much of the deception is found however in the administrators commentary to my email correspondence on the Forum itself. While I admit that there were times I made myself look bad, the biggest problem however is the spin JREF applied to my communications.
Take a look at page 20 of the Audio Critic thread to see the most egregious acts committed. The matter presumably needs to be viewed as a whole to really see the thing for what it is. There were a few side threads involved as well.
Seriously, I didn't see the link below to Randi's website. I haven't read the thread yet. Reading it now...
/*Music is subjective. Sound is not.*/
A reading of the emails would also be necessary to establish the truth of the matter. The administrator has a nasty habit of being quite selective on what he deems relevant to the discussion. My contention is that he does this to purposely misrepresent matters to his advantage
...otherwise it's a madhouse.
Go to www.randi.org. Enter the forum. Click on Million Dollar Challenge.
NT
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